Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

Just to clarify a few (more) thing about WWgs

1). Page 67 states that WWgs can never be attacked in a flank or the rear, as all edges are considered as a front edge.

Q: does that mean that (in effect) WWgs have no flank or rear lines to cross - so a unit that is in front of one side of a WWg can move and hit it on another (as long as it has the movement distance and the ability to turn etc) with no restrictions?

2). Where an enemy unit deliberately charges into a position where it has an unengaged WWg on its own flank whilst fighting another enemy unit to its front, Page 61 (4th bullet) state that the WWg's effect will be the same as LI or LH or Artillery (e.g. no cohesion loss and simple support).
However, whilst Special Cases (Page 61) states that if this is the case that the attacking unit will fight as if it has been attacked in the Flank, Page 63 specifically precludes WWg having this effect - so WWg fighting on an enemy flank whilst the enemy is engaged frontally will not reduce the enemy to a '0' factor and will not cancel all 2HW, Impact, Javelin, Polearm, Furious Charge and Missile support effect.

Q: is this the correct reading of this?

Thanks
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[SteveR]

Hi Mark,

Regarding question 1 I think contact with a War Wagon is still a charge and not a move and so you cannot move from one side to contact another as a move. You must still follow the restrictions of a charge which has only a slide or wheel or turn followed by an optional wheel at the beginning.

Regarding question 2, I believe you are correct unless the War Wagon is bladed.

[Mark G Fry]

[SteveR]

Hi Mark,

I think you are going a bit too far here. Let me make sure I understand your argument.

If I am correct you are saying that because War Wagons cannot be considered to have a flank edge when one fights them, that an opponent can ignore the contact restrictions on page 41

I do not agree. War Wagons may not be subject to flank attacks, but they still are facing in a given direction. I don't think anyone would argue that a War Wagon can move from any side or even just from either short side.

They may not have flanks for fighting purposes but surely they do for movement. And if they have a front edge, then the contact restrictions on page 41 should be applied

As such, if I am following your diagram correctly, if the War Wagons are facing to the left or the right look at the position of the Medium Foot front edge relative to the line extending the War Wagon front or rear edge to see where they may conform.

As I look at it the Medium Foot front edge is either partly to the rear of the line extending the rear edge and so may contact the (short) rear edge

If instead the War Wagons are facing to the right then the MF has its front edge partly in front of the line extending the front edge and so may contact the (short) front edge.

[Mark G Fry]

[Andy Fyfe]

Hi Mark,

The WWG rules seem to be a little vague and spread across the rulebook.

If it helps I trawled through the rules and errata to list all of the rules and where they came from:

ADLG War Wagon notes (WWG = War Wagon / WWG(B) = War Wagon Blades)

WWG - Cancel Impact, Javelin and Furious charge of all enemies except elephants (p14)
WWG(B) - Cancel Impact, Javelin and Furious charge of all enemies (including elephants) (p14)

Battle Ready (p14)
Not WWG(B) or Mediocre WWG
1 CP cost (can combine with a quarter turn for +1 CP)
+1 in melee vs all enemies
1 CP to recover stakes / chains / mantlets (cannot move until recovered)

The enemy having WWG/WWG(B) is a condition for dismounting your mounted units (p21)

When carrying out a quarter turn can slide to left or right 1UD to make room for turn (single WWG or
group of two WWG maximum) (p32). Takes 2UD of movement to complete a quarter turn but only costs
1 CP (p35 and errata)

Can only make two multiple movements (p34)

Interpenetration by foot units over long edge (narrowest direction) only (p39)

All units can disengage from a WWG/WWG(B) (p40)

Conformation (p40):
WWG – Never conforms to enemy
WWG(B) – Conforms only when they charge or contact an enemy
Cannot be shifted to allow friendly confirmation (errata)

ZoC:
Does not exert a ZoC (p38)
Restricted by enemy ZoC (p38)

WWG/WWG(B) can never be attacked on flank or rear (all sides count as front)

Not subject to multiple attack

Long edge counts as having +1 simple support in melee

No melee support against a WWG/WWG(B) (units in melee support position count as simple support)

No corner to corner or flank to flank simple support against a WWG/WWG(B)

Only one unit attacks in the melee phase (phasing player picks which unit)

Routing WWG/WWG(B) do not cause loss to friendly units (p68)

Impetuous units do not have to pursue a WWG/WWG(B) (p69)

Cannot be part of an ambush (p77)

Cannot be part of a flank march (p79)

WWG(B) specific rules (errata):
Can make flank or rear attacks
Can count in multiple attacks
Does not conform if it’s in corner-to-corner or flank-to-flank contact with the enemy
Can conform for 1 CP

[Mark G Fry]

[SteveR]

Well Mark,

"Therefore, I'd argue that as a WWg has no flanks or rear attacking units don't have to comply with the ruling on page 41 about Flank or Rear."

And this is where we disagree. They do not have flanks or rear for combat purposes, and may not suffer multiple attacks. It does not cry to be extended to other circumstances.

I see no reason to assume exemption from contact restrictions based on extrapolative reading of paragraph covering a different situation.

[Mark G Fry]

[madaxeman]

[Ramses II]

Wading in where angels fear to tread . . .

I tend to agree to Mark and would suggest we use the descriptions on p41 for front, flanks and rear, and consider the amount of the enemy inside those areas, then conform accordingly. 

So where the bulk of the enemy front is behind the line of the narrow ’front’ or ‘rear’ edge, conform on that edge. If the bulk are inside the line of the longer ‘flank’ edge, then conform accordingly.

I hope this makes sense. 

Note, these definitions only apply to movement and conformation, not combat. 

[Mark G Fry]

[Dickstick]

Do you want a wwg to loose it's front for movement and actual combat calculation also.

I think you extrapolate ' only fronts' too far.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

[SteveR]