Art De La Guerre

[babyshark]

I happened across the Almughavars, who are now medium spearmen impact (which seems like a pretty sweet troop type). The question is: how good are they against mounted? Being spears they cancel the impact ability of enemy mounted; do they then get to count their own impact ability?

In other words, if they receive a charge from enemy mounted is the calculation as follows: cav +1 (impact, if any, canceled) against medium spear +3 (+1 for base factor, +1 for spears receiving charge, +1 for impact).

Marc

[Longtooth]

Looks right to me. Against knights, however, the Almughavars would only get +2 (+0 base, +1 vs mounted + 1 impact).

[harryKonst]

. M.spear Impact have a bonus of +1 against mounted (except El) when receiving their charge, and loose their impact if the mounted have impact (or are impetuous which is the same as impact). They keep it if the mounted do not have an impact. Mounted do lose their impact (except elephants) against spearmen (heavy or medium) or pikemen. So, a Med.spear impact vs impact (or impetuous) Cavalry is, 1 basic factor for the M.spear, +1 vs mounted in 1st round (if receiving their charge), +0 for the lost impact of theirs, a total of 2. Cavalry has only 1, the basic factor and looses the +1 of impact against the M.Spears, so a total of 2vs 1 in favor of M.Spears.
Knights (impact or impetuous), have 1 as basic factor and also loose their impact vs M.Spears, so a total of 1. But now the M.Spears Impact have 0 as basic factor vs Knights and +1 since receiving the charge of mounted (on the first round of course), +0 for their lost impact. So a total of 1. It's 1 vs 1 the final score. All the above are +1 more for the M.Spears Impact if the CV and Kn don't have impact of their own (or are impetuous as we said) .
The advantage that Impact (or impetuous ) Cv and Kn have against M.Spears is that they still have furious charge, so if they win the battle they drop the M.Spears one more level. If they loose, they both get +1 to their score due to their better armour (if the Cv is Heavy). Be ware that this +1 if they loose the battle still applies even if the M.Spears are armoured (only for the first round) because since their opponents (H.CV and KN) have furious charge, their (the spearmen's) armour does not apply.

[Longtooth]

Hi Harry,

Assuming that the cavalry has its impact cancelled by the Almughavar's spear, should the Almughavar not get an extra +1 for impact?

Jesse

[harryKonst]

Hi Jesse,
The cancellation of Cv's impact is correct, but that doesn't mean that the other unit keeps its own. If you read page 18 IMPACT, 3rd bullet, the rule says, 'the impact ability of foot troops does not apply against mounted troops with Impact ability when the mounted unit charges the foot unit.' The M.spear impact are excellent against Cv impact of course with a 2 vs 1 score, but the mounted are still a threat.

[Mike Bennett]

[Longtooth]

Hi Mike....I think this is a special case, as almughavar have both spear and impact. I suppose the question is, do they receive the +1 spear bonus AND +1 impact bonus when charged by impact cavalry?

In my mind, this is the same as a roman legionary being charged to the front by a javelinman and the flank by a light foot. As the legionary's impact is cancelled, the javelinman gets +1 for javelin and +1 for combat support.

Jesse

[Ramses II]

You should note that there is a small discrepancy in the rules

• P13 Medium Spearmen 3rd bullet states that they cancel the impact of mounted troops
  
• P18 Impact, 4th bullet only mentions Heavy spearmen and Pike cancelling Impact of mounted troops. I believe that MI spearmen should be added to this bullet

And yes Jesse, because the MI spearmen cancel the impact of mounted, they would get their own impact bonus making them +2 overall against mounted with Impact - making them very dangerous to charge frontally.

[fdunadan]

French version p18 cite heavy spears, pikes and medium spears as canceling mounted impact.
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Audentes fortuna iuvat.

[harryKonst]

Thanks for the correction guys. Now I understand the rule better. Since the mounted loose their impact against M.Spear impact, they count as non-impact Cv , so the impact ability of foot now comes in play. They are much more dangerous than I played them. Thanks again.

[harryKonst]

By the way on page 18 in the English version also states that M.Spearmen, H.Spearmen and Pikemen cancel the impact ability of mounted if they receive the charge on their front.

[L9000]

[babyshark]

[Za Otlichiye]

For those finding this discussion, note that the errata appears to overrule it and Almughavars now only get Impact against foot.