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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Lun Juin 13, 2022 11:06 am Sujet du message: Light troops turning |
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The top right bullet on page 32 says light troops “…turn for free at the beginning or end of the move.â€
(1) Does this mean they pay a 1 UD penalty to turn in the middle of their move like non-lights?
“During the same move they can make a second … turn but their movement allowance is then reduced by 1 UD.â€
(2) Does this mean a second turn can only follow a first turn if that first turn is made at the beginning of their move?
(3) Can this second turn be made in the middle of their move or at the end?
Are the answers:
(1) Yes
(2) Yes
(3) Yes
Dernière édition par KevinD le Lun Juin 13, 2022 7:08 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 501
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Lun Juin 13, 2022 6:49 pm Sujet du message: |
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[quote="KevinD"]
KevinD a écrit: |
“During the same move they can make a second … turn but their movement allowance is then reduced by 1 UD.â€
(2) Does this mean a second turn can only follow a first turn that first turn is made at the beginning of their move?
P |
I agree with your 3 yes.
Very interesting to see your very precise reading, I have never noticed this before, and I would not be surprised if it is unintentional. BUT as you have highlighted, the way it is written says that if you make a turn during the move (not at the start), it must be paid for and then you cannot do another “second†turn, paid for or free at the end. |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 978
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Posté le: Lun Juin 13, 2022 8:03 pm Sujet du message: |
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Sorry to break your advance but the original phrasing in french is
" * Lights can make a first turn free. this maneuver is not deducted from their movement.
* in the same move they can make another turn that reduce their move by 1 UD"
so 1) NO
2) NO
3)YES _________________ Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021 Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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Posté le: Lun Juin 13, 2022 8:07 pm Sujet du message: |
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I read it as - (2) No - You can make one free turn either at the start or at the end but not both. (The usual problem with or vs. exclusive or that needs to be addressed with careful proofing.) You can also make one additional turn at cost. The turn in the middle is the "second" turn. It just happens before the first turn at the end.
***
Oh dear if so that's a significant mistranslation in the English rules. Could someone post the French?
Dernière édition par Za Otlichiye le Mer Juin 15, 2022 6:06 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Juin 14, 2022 9:08 pm Sujet du message: |
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fdunadan a écrit: | Sorry to break your advance but the original phrasing in french is
" * Lights can make a first turn free. this manoeuvre is not deducted from their movement.
* in the same move they can make another turn that reduce their move by 1 UD"
so 1) NO
2) NO
3)YES | Agreed Fdundan.
Basically the first turn is free, irrespective of when this occurs.
This in turn means that Light troops can evade and then use their 'free turn' to turn around at the end of the evade movement. |
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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 501
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Mar Juin 14, 2022 9:47 pm Sujet du message: |
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fdunadan a écrit: | Sorry to break your advance but the original phrasing in french is
" * Lights can make a first turn free. this maneuver is not deducted from their movement.
* in the same move they can make another turn that reduce their move by 1 UD"
so 1) NO
2) NO
3)YES |
Hi guys
As it sounds as if the English translation is quite different from the french original please can we have this covered in the next FAQ. It is fair that everyone knows this, not just those following this post
Dernière édition par Mike Bennett le Mar Juin 14, 2022 9:48 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 445
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Juin 15, 2022 3:26 am Sujet du message: |
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And to be clear we are saying:
Lights can make one turn at any time during their move - this first turn does not reduce their movement distance.
Lights can make a second turn any time during their move (but obviously after the first turn) - this second turn reduces their move by 1UD.
LI Example:
Make a half turn
Move 1UD
Make a quarter turn
Move 1UD |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021 Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 3:19 am Sujet du message: |
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Or:
1⁄2 UD
1⁄4 turn right
1 UD
1⁄4 turn left
1⁄2 UD
Rather rare there would be any advantage to 2 turns in the middle of the move, but as Mlke hints it would be nice not to have to wait a year to get answers to this level of question. |
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Mike Bennett
Légat
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 501
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 3:45 am Sujet du message: |
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Za Otlichiye a écrit: | rather rare there would be any advantage to 2 turns in the middle of the move, but as Mlke hints it would be nice not to have to wait a year to get answers to this level of question. |
I agree the free turn in the middle of the move is a much bigger correction than two turns part. However both can be quite powerful to stop evaders, or maybe it is just the way I play. Both can light horse to get further behind an enemy group. Rather than just block the end of the group they can break the group up if they block the middle. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 12:17 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | fdunadan a écrit: | Sorry to break your advance but the original phrasing in french is
" * Lights can make a first turn free. this manoeuvre is not deducted from their movement.
* in the same move they can make another turn that reduce their move by 1 UD"
so 1) NO
2) NO
3)YES | Agreed Fdundan.
Basically the first turn is free, irrespective of when this occurs.
This in turn means that Light troops can evade and then use their 'free turn' to turn around at the end of the evade movement. |
Then, as Mike has pointed out, we have a problem.
There is no rational reading of the rule in the English version that allows for a free turn at any point in the move other than the beginning or end:
Citation: | Page 32 Light troops BP1:
* During a move light troops can make a half-turn or quarter-turn for free at the beginning or end of the move. This half-turn or quarter-turn is not deducted from their movement allowance. |
It looks like an entirely different rule in the French version quoted by fdunadan _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4725
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 3:57 pm Sujet du message: |
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En effet, la règle anglaise est restée en V3 sur ce point.... _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.
Dernière édition par lionelrus le Ven Juin 17, 2022 4:02 pm; édité 1 fois |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4725
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 4:00 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: | And to be clear we are saying:
Lights can make one turn at any time during their move - this first turn does not reduce their movement distance.
Lights can make a second turn any time during their move (but obviously after the first turn) - this second turn reduces their move by 1UD.
LI Example:
Make a half turn
Move 1UD
Make a quarter turn
Move 1UD |
Depending, in France or England? _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Ven Juin 17, 2022 6:40 pm Sujet du message: |
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Merci Lionel,
au moins je connaîtrai la règle pour le week-end prochain à Lyon
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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