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When is conformation required?
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions
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SteveR
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Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 07, 2019 4:16 pm    Sujet du message: When is conformation required? Répondre en citant
I must say, forgive me, in advance. This is both a very simple question to answer but also a complex one to ask with all of its ramifications.

Consider the following situation:

123
456


To make it simple we will say that 1 and 3 are medium sword of player A and are facing down.

5 and 6 are Medium Sword units of player B and are charging straight up and making contact as shown.

2 and 4 represent "voids" - missing spots 1 UD by 1 UD

It is clear that 3 and 6 fight each other.

5 makes corner to corner contact with 1 as part of its charge. It is also in a support position to 6. Is unit 5 required to leave the support position to conform to 1?
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 07, 2019 4:25 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
This was answered in a different thread, after some debate. 

Because 5 is in corner contact with 1, it is forced to. conform on unit 1, since that unit is not fighting any other enemy, and conformation is mandatory under these circumstances. 
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SteveR
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 07, 2019 4:51 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thank you, I looked but could not find the answer.

So, to explore further, if the group 5 and 6 instead of charging straight ahead into that position instead slide .25 UD to the right first.

Then both 5 and 6 will contact 3 on the front edge and will then conform to the left. In this circumstance 5 is prohibited from conforming to 1 as the conformation cannot exceed 1 UD. Correct?
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 07, 2019 10:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
This is the original thread. In this thread, one unit is already in melee and the second unit is trying to move into support. Following the movement into both support and corner contact, the rules on conformation require this unit to be adjusted to face the second enemy unit as I presented.

Conformation is specifically a process to adjust the position of units following movement in order to simplify the resolution of the Melee; basically units that are in contact after movement are repositioned.

To your question, if the friendly units only contact a single enemy, they conform with respect to that unit. In this case this results in the "supporting" unit being repositioned into corner contact with a second enemy unit. At this point the question becomes whether unit 5 is deemed to be 'supporting' unit 6 against enemy 3, or whether it is now deemed to be fighting enemy unit 1.

General Principles, p50 says "units in contact with an enemy will fight in melee". Furthermore, the relative positions of units 1 and 5 can also be achieved if they previously defeated their respective opponents (4 and 2) but decided not to conform after the melee (which is optional except for impetuous troops - see p59 third para).

So IMO unit 5 still ceases to be 'in support' under these circumstances, and must melee with unit 1, irrespective of how this situation occurred.



FWIW, I believe that following a melee, units must either move away or conform; that the units may not remain in corner contact because it is potentially confusing However, this is not the official position at the moment.
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Hazelbark
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 08, 2019 8:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:

FWIW, I believe that following a melee, units must either move away or conform; that the units may not remain in corner contact because it is potentially confusing However, this is not the official position at the moment.


This is not official. In fact the opposite has been ruled. They may stay and do nothing assuming not impetuous. If they act the must either conform or move apart.

It is potentially confusing but not practically so.

I can see the argument for the rule being changed, but at this point there is no requirement
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 08, 2019 11:48 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
Ramses II a écrit:

FWIW, I believe that following a melee, units must either move away or conform; that the units may not remain in corner contact because it is potentially confusing However, this is not the official position at the moment.


This is not official. In fact the opposite has been ruled. They may stay and do nothing assuming not impetuous. If they act the must either conform or move apart.

It is potentially confusing but not practically so.

I can see the argument for the rule being changed, but at this point there is no requirement

I agree we can live with things as they are, though this can be confusing (as evidenced by this and the previous threads) while there is also one extremely rare situation which would be even more confusing. Consider the following;
Units ABC are in melee with units 123. A and C destroy their opponents, while simultaneously, 2 destroys B leaving the following position:-

A_C
_2_

For in-game reasons, in the following turn no conformation takes place.
In the subsequent melee:-
  • Which unit is the "main unit" fighting unit 2?
  • Which unit is in support?
  • If the units do not change position, in the following turn could A and C change being the "main" unit and the "support" unit??

Like I say, this is a really small edge case, potentially caused by a General in unit 2 being successful, while the opposing player wants to leave his units in position to contact other opponents.
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SteveR
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MessagePosté le: Sam Nov 09, 2019 10:54 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I dont see your hypothetical as an issue so perhaps I am missing something.

"Which unit is the "main unit" fighting unit 2? "

Whichever one conforms.

"Which unit is in support? "

The other one Smile

"If the units do not change position, in the following turn could A and C change being the "main" unit and the "support" unit??"

Corner to corner does not allow for melee in my opinion so the situation will not happen.

Until someone does something corner to corner is nothing. A unit in that condition may comform, sit there, or move. Explicitly addressed on FAQ Page 9, example three.
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Sam Nov 09, 2019 11:56 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ahh, it helps to read the fine print in the rules. 
Embarassed    

Corner contact is specifically not a melee position.

So nothing to see here, move on
😱
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Hazelbark
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MessagePosté le: Mar Nov 12, 2019 11:55 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:


So nothing to see here, move on
😱


Smile
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