Art De La Guerre

[Black Prince]

The other night my opponent was saying that the section on page 50 Time of confirmation, reads that after a melee in which you eliminate the opposing base but you are in still corner to corner contact with an unengaged enemy base you must conform to it. I have always played in the next turn after elimination you must either confirm or move away. Which is correct?

[SteveR]

You are correct and not him.

This is found in several places. For example page 50 says when to conform. None of the bullets say what he is saying - after melee.

The last bullet requires a pursuer to contact a new enemy.

Another example to show you are right is on page 51 - Conforming units still in contact. The situation you describe is explicitly addressed.

So you are right and he is wrong.

[Bluesqull]

Possibly a bit of clarification required here.

…….C
A1 A2

It is A’s turn. A2 fights a combat against C with A1 in simple support. A2 is eliminated. C cannot pursue as it’s not their turn.

The question was whether A1 can conform during the rout and pursuit phase not whether C must conform. C can’t conform because it’s not their turn. I’m quite aware that in the next move C must either conform or move away…however that wasn’t the question being discussed.

The preamble to the Time of Conformation dot points on page 50 says “ Conformation takes place during the Movement phase, or the Rout and Pursuit phase, in the following cases:… “ Dot point 3 then says “ to align with an enemy which the unit is already in contact with but not in melee”… A1 and C are clearly in corner to corner contact after the melee. In the next move this dot point would cover C…they can conform or move away. However the question is about the inclusion of the reference to both movement and pursuit/rout phases in the preamble. Can it apply to A1 in the rout and pursuit phase?

There is nothing to say that the dot points fall in any sequence, nor whether they must only apply to one of the two phases. Though the last dot point clearly indicates it only applies during the rout and pursuit phase, it does not logically follow that the others only apply during the movement phase. So I’m really just asking where this is clarified. Taken as read the passage logically states that the following dot point conditions can apply in either of the two phases (unless of course the condition is logically excluded). Or to put it another way, even if A doesn’t really have a rout or pursuit move because the primary unit was eliminated, can the support unit conform during that imaginary phase anyway?

See. Easy question really…..

[SteveR]

The question is easy.

The answer is, and was easy.

Conformation does not take place in the pursuit and rout phase because A1 cannot conform as it is not meeting a new enemy.

dot 3 applies during the movement phase.

[Neep]

Note that page 69 Pursuit bullet 2 explicitly states units which can pursue but have an enemy attacking their flank/rear must turn and conform.
This can only be covered by page 50 Time of conformation bullet 3.
Only the active player's unit conform (page 59 Conformation bullet 6) and implicitly a pursuit eligible unit is either conforming to flank/rear as above, or sliding forward. The rules about contacting new enemy seem to imply nothing happens if already in (non-melee) contact.
This doesn't cover the case of a unit in support now left in non-melee contact because the unit it was supporting got routed by the enemy, but page 51 Conforming units already in contact talks only about the movement phase.
So I think only flank/rear contact and new enemy contact allow conformance during the Rout and Pursuit phase, but it's a simple and fair querstion.

[Hazelbark]

Steve Roper has answered this correctly.

[Bluesqull]

Thanks for that. It would probably be more useful if the dot points were sorted into which applies in each phase but that’s neither here nor there.

So in our case it’s page 51 that sorts it out : A1 cant conform because it doesn’t actually pursue and there is nothing to say what it can do other than stand around. There is a pursuit phase but A1 isn’t actually eligible to do anything in that phase because it wasn’t involved in a melee that ended in the opponent being routed. It can only conform if it were to pursue and meet a new enemy. Conforming In corner to corner contact without the pursuit can only be done in the following movement phase.

Makes perfect sense. Although it’s not as obvious nor as easy as suggested.

[lionelrus]

[SteveR]

Good point Lionel. I was too abrupt and apologize for that.

the rules are excellent but I still find that I need to have someone explain what they mean because I cannot always figure it out from the plain text.