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Pikemen charge by shift and conform?
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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AlanCutner
Tribun


Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 706
Localisation: Scotland
MessagePosté le: Mer Jan 25, 2023 10:23 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
ALEXANDER a écrit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/frkxaew9h34lxwn/20230122_100326.jpg?dl=0

The current status of the discussion is as follows.
This movement is allowed, if a third unit C is charging the enemy B head-on. It's a move... not an attack. The movement ends in melee support. B will lose a cohesion point and fights with factor zero. This support case is important in order to decide which "rule" should apply in the event of an attack.
We have already discussed this, and it may indeed be a plausible way for pike to provide support to an existing melee. 


Also note one of my earlier posts where I pointed out the Charge Range rule prevents Pikemen sliding into contact as a charge. I have amended my latest post to include this. I agree that doesn't stop the pikes doing a normal move to simple support.
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ALEXANDER
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 28 Déc 2021
Messages: 171
MessagePosté le: Mer Jan 25, 2023 11:19 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
My personal opinion is that this discussion is so vehement because some players prefer to play with cavalry rather than infantry. Unit B is usually a horseman who is supposed to do a flank attack against the infantry in the next round. All Questions about possible attacks wouldn't even arise if unit B was a little more than 1 UD away. A flank attack would still be possible for B in the next round. But it's also about hindering Infantry A from moving or defending effectivly.

Basically, I think the balance between elite pike infantry and cavalry is a bit off balance. This statement applies only to elite Pikemen and partially to ordinary pikemen (not to those cheap pikemen mediocre). Even impetuous cavalry no longer have to attack pikemen. Instead, nowadays the expensive pikes have to attack the cheaper knights or horsemen, losing their combat advantage in the process.

Recently, a player prefered to set up Heavy Knight impact mediocre in his army list, rather than ordinary or even elite Pikeman. Congratulation! This is definetly the better choice!

Heavy Knight impact mediocre fight well. They are faster than ordinary Pikemen, they are manoeuvrable, have heavy armor in shooting and close combat, they can break up a bad melee against heavy infantry (and eventually "defend" again with the impact bonus, they have furious charge, and they can even dismount as Foot Knights .

But that is not an argument for a possible corner-to-corner attack or its prohibition, but has its reason in the rule and point system.

Banning corner to corner attacks renders elite pikemen almost useless. But if these attacks are allowed, first of all pikemen mediocre will improve against Cavalry.

Ps. A better solution for the pikes would be, if a spontaneous charge of the pikes was counted as a charge receive. ...or if only pikemen mediocre would count a turn as difficult manoeuvre.
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