Art De La Guerre

[ALEXANDER]

A unit of pikemen (A) has a enemy (B) to its flank at exactly 1 UD distance.

The enemy unit has already moved behind the front line of the pikemen (but has not yet turned) to attack the pikemens flank in its next turn.
The enemy unit has not yet fully crossed the frontline line with the rear of its own base.

..................BBBB
AAAA........BBBB
AAAA........BBBB
AAAA
AAAA

The pikemen would like to charge the enemy in its own turn
It cannot wheel 1,5 UD and reach the enemy
It cannot make a quarter turn and reach the enemy

But...
Can it simply shift 1 UD to the side to have contact with its front corner? ..and conform
Actually it has contact with all of its side edge, but there is a contact with the front corner!
This attack would be an flank attack against unit B

If the enemy would be still in front of the pikemen this attack is allowed and would be a frontal attack.
If B would have fully crossed the frontline of the pikemen
a corner contact would not be possible anymore.

There is not additional enemy unit
that exerts a ZOC on the pikemem

[Longtooth]

No.

[Ramses II]

Agreed Longtooth. 
P30. The slide simplifies movement. It is not intended to avoid the pike’s movement penalty. 

[ALEXANDER]

But it is still possible to move A into a position to give melee support, isn't it?

Wheel 1 UD, slide to the right, move forward up to 1 UD and contact the enemy on its flank. Then conform to give melee support.

This is a movement, not a charge! Therefore it is allowed to slide during the advance

So if another unit attacks B on the front first, the pikemen could give a plus 3 for their melee support?

[lionelrus]

[Robert241167]

Under your 2nd scenario Alexander you would be able to move into simple support for +1 but not melee support for +3.

That would require another turn to initiate.

Rob

[ALEXANDER]

Why? I disagree. Its a melee support like shown on the lower picture on Page 51.

The pikemen start their movement already behind B frontline!
If the wheel 1 UD, then slide towards the enemy B and move forward the have contact with the front corner ONLY
not with their side edge.

In addition...
Is this kind of flank charge (as described in my first question) forbidden for all units?..
1. because the charge will end with parts of the side edge (including the front corner) in contact with the enemy?

2. or just for Pikemen, impetuous Hi and warwagon (blades) that lose all of their normal movement allowance when turning

[ALEXANDER]

Please explain the differences
1.
...................BBBB
...................BBBB
...................BBBB
AAAA
AAAA
AAAA
AAAA

Pikemen A may slide 1 UD and will contact B with its front corner
though the pikemen would normally not be able to contact B by either a wheel or a turn
...Conformation....Front attack

2.
Same distance of 1 UD but B has its front to the right

.....................BBB
.....................BBB
.....................BBB
.....................BBB
AAAA
AAAA
AAAA
AAAA

Slide 1 UD contact with the front corner
Conformation ...flank attack

3.
......................BBBB
......................BBBB
AAAA............BBBB
AAAA
AAAA
AAAA

no charge possible??

4.
B is already in frontal contact with c
A would like to wheel 1 UD
then slide 1 UD toward B
and move forward to contact B with its front corner in B flank
Conformation melee support

......................BBBB
......................BBBB
AAAA............BBBB
AAAA............CCCC
AAAA............CCCC
AAAA............CCCC

[Ramses II]

Hi Alexander. 
Simple mathematics mean that a wheel is approximately 1.5UD, not 1UD. Consequently the Pike unit cannot wheel and then move 1 UD into contact. 

Your case #4, the pike can slide sideways and advance (slightly) to be in Simple support; they do not have the movement allowance to reach the enemy with their front edge and be in Melee support (2.5 UD needed). 

By the same token, the pike could slide 1UD and then advance into corner-to-corner contact (and then conform). 

In the other cases the pikes are making contact with their side edge (and corner) rather than the front edge (and corner). The unit is effectively moving sideways into contact which is not what the rules intend. 

[ALEXANDER]

I do not wish to wheel 1.5 UD??

And neither a slide nor the conformation reduces the movement allowance!
Why do I need a movement allowance of 2,5 UD?

The charge range is defined on page 42
As the pikemen do NOT quarter-turn
Their movement allowance is 2

Sorry but I do not understand your explanation

#4 is a legal movement that end in contact with the enemy flank.

1 UD wheel to the right
0.75 UD slide to the right
1 UD straight forward advance into contact

The unit then conforms to give support
Why do you believe this is just a simple support?
The movement of the pikemen starts behind the enemy frontline.

[lionelrus]

[Ramses II]

[ALEXANDER]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/frkxaew9h34lxwn/20230122_100326.jpg?dl=0

This is the movement under #4
to give melee support

[ALEXANDER]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1t8ep6hp47383b/20230122_115953.jpg?dl=0

And these are pictures about a possible charge.

1. The pikemen unit slides 1 UD to the right and advances into front corner to front corner contact. Conformation
Front attack
2. The pikemen unit slides 1 UD and is already in front corner to front corner contact. Same as 1

4. An attack is not possible for pikemen, because there is not front edge contact!! (A manoeuvrable unit could attack by doing a quarter-turn and an advance)

But what is the outcome of number 3 (after conformation)

The pikemem unit contacts a new enemy by doing a slide
...and is in the same flank position as the unit A2 on page 51 (conformtion units already in contact)

[Ramses II]

Thanks for the pictures, they help to explain your intentions. 

To reply to each case

1. This is the correct use of a slide followed by a charge into contact. Ending in front corner contact (where the unit stops after a small forwards movement), the unit conforms to the enemy front edge.
   
   
2. A corner is very difficult to Adjudicate since it is effectively both part of the front and also the side. So we have to use the movement to define whether it is a ‘front’ contact or a ‘side’ contact. Here the pikes slide sideways into contact with the enemy. The fact the contact is corner to corner is immaterial - this is NOT a charge as there is no forwards movement.
   
   
3. This is the same as case #2 above. Since movement stops on making contact (which prevents any actual forward movement) this is NOT a legal charge.
   
   
4. As I said earlier, this may indeed be a legal way of making contact. Simple geometry (and using Pythagoras) suggests that the pikes may indeed wheel and slide, advance to make contact and then conform. The choice of whether to conform into Simple support or Melee support is up to the player.