Art De La Guerre

[Ballista]

P39 Adjusting Positions

When troops do allowable interpenetrations how are they placed when the unit interpenetrating can't partially reach the other side ?

Is this different for light troops ?

[SteveR]

If the unit interpenetrating cannot at least partially reach the other side then the interpenetration is not allowed.

Page 39, "Adjusting positions" first sentence.

A lot of people seem to miss that sentence and jump ahead to the bullet points. They only apply if the second sentence is true as well as the first.

[Ballista]

So if unit cannot at least get its front edge clear of friend it is interpenetrating then interpenetration doesn't take place

Then adjusting positions of the units is unit being interpenetrated is moved minimum distance ?

Applies to all troop types, including light troops ?

[SteveR]

If it is an allowed interpenetration BUT the unit making the move cannot at least partially reach the other side then it then becomes an unallowed penetration. So it doesn't happen

If the interpenetration cannot take place, there is no adjustment of any other unit. The unit interpenetrating must stop before overlapping the other unit.

The first sentence prohibition is repeated again as the last sentence of the section too. It seems like the author really means it <smile>

There is no exception for light troops either that I can see.

[Hazelbark]

So if lights get their front edge to the other side, then the light troops get to move the full base all the way through. The unit that was not moving still has not moved.

If the units interpenetrating are non-light and the front edge crosses to the far side, then they try to move their full. If they can't but their front edge got out, then the stationary unit is moved back (i.e. toward the rear of the unit doing the crossing) until the crossing unit can fit. bullet 3

[KevinD]

Really?
I thought Lights had to be able to make it all the way through and could not interpenetrate if they could not.

[Hazelbark]

[KevinD]

Thanks, Dan!

Points out the importance of actually going back and looking at the rules and not just going by what one remembers them to have said.

[AlanCutner]

Follow up question. If a non-light unit interpenetrates a light unit but doesn't get all the way through the light unit is move back to make room. Does this still happen if the light unit is ZOC'd by light infantry? Note this only comes up if the ZOC'ing unit is LI as it ZOC's enemy lights but not the non-lights.

[Hazelbark]

[AlanCutner]

[Ramses II]

Spot on Dan.
To emphasise a point often overlooked, the interpenetrating unit must completely clear the stationary unit if possible - it is not permitted to make a partial move and then ‘adjust’ the position of the units. 

[KevinD]

Hmmm….

What if completely clearing the unit you are interpenetrating would result in contacting enemy? Do you have to move that far if it results in a charge?

What if it would not be legal to charge that enemy in such a move? Can you then stop short of contact?

[Hazelbark]

Why would you not be able to charge someone you completely and legally charge?

[SteveR]

Hi Dan,

I think Kevin's question is the situation where the only way to completely clear the unit being interpenetrated is to contact an enemy. There is exactly one base depth between the friend and the enemy.

Are you then compelled to charge if you want to move through? (the answer is Yes in my opinion Kevin)

Or does the requirement to make contact somehow relieve the interpenetrating unit of that imperative? (the answer is No in my opinion Kevin)



And best of all we have the case where the interpenetrating unit is LI and there is exactly one Unit base depth between the friend and the enemy which is a heavy unit. Is the LI allowed to stop short as it cannot legally charge? The answer is "no" because interpenetrating LI are advanced forward if they partially interpenetrate and so would be compelled to make an illegal contact. It's almost like the rules have anticipated this situation.