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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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 Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 5:31 pm Sujet du message: |
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The phrase friendly units that it cannot interpenetrate (p. 48 ) is mildly ambiguous. It would be better as "friendly units that it cannot pass through".
The primal instinct is sex.
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018
Messages: 117
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 9:14 pm Sujet du message: |
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Not really - changing the wording only fits to your interpretation of interpenetrating (there it is again !!)
Seems clear how the rules are written. LI can interpenetrate HI. Just bad luck (or dice rolling, or positioning, or.... ) that sometimes they don't get to the other side.
And LH meeting a CAV unit in melee cannot interpenetrate them. No yes or no answer there.
Whereas the LI here can.
There is a difference.
If the rules said 'cannot pass through' then would fit the interpretation of interpenetrating (!!) it seems people want to use. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 10:03 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Ballista a écrit: | And LH meeting a CAV unit in melee cannot interpenetrate them. No yes or no answer there.
Whereas the LI here can. ... |
They 'can' interpenetrate HI, except in (some, but not some other) situations when they can't.
Unless you have found a list that includs Shroedigers Light Infantry as mercenaries, I'm still not sure how they both can and cannot interpenetrate at the same time...
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 10:56 pm Sujet du message: |
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It is quite clear from the last paragraph on page 39 that if you cannot reach the other side, interpenetration is not allowed.
The problem is that interpenetration is something of a process, while "pass through" is the completed successful result... |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 11:45 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | It is quite clear from the last paragraph on page 39 that if you cannot reach the other side, interpenetration is not allowed.
The problem is that interpenetration is something of a process, while "pass through" is the completed successful result... |
Absolutely agreed. However that does not make it an obstacle, or something that you cannot interpenetrate. It just makes is something that you do not have the movement distance to pass through. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 11, 2021 12:29 am Sujet du message: |
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| Dickstick a écrit: | What happens if there are two ranks of HI and the LI can just clear the front rank but not the second?
Would the rear rank stop the LI and thus the front rank be moved forward to make room? |
No, in the case where the LI (or other unit) cannot pass through the rear edge of multiple units, it stops at the front edge. The process is clearly laid out in Adjusting positions p39.
And the same would be true if there were some gap between the units that is too small to accept the LI. Even though the LI could pass through the first unit it would not have the movement allowance to clear the rear edge of the second; it is the LI that must adjust positions not the heavier unit.
However, if the interpenetrating unit were Javelinmen trying to evade through several units of HI under the same circumstances, then the first HI would be adjusted, with the Javelinmen ending up sandwiched between this and the second HI unit.
Finally, it is obvious that while some troops "may" interpenetrate, they may not have the movement allowance to achieve this.
No ?? |
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018
Messages: 117
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 11, 2021 6:28 am Sujet du message: |
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With respect to the cat.
The Third bullet point second column P39 should solve the interpretation problem of one unit interpenetrating another and not having enough movement to get partially across (in the case of the LI here) |
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Dickstick
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 680
Localisation: West Bromwich
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 11, 2021 9:12 am Sujet du message: |
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I'm happy with that.
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 11, 2021 9:29 am Sujet du message: |
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| Mike Bennett a écrit: | | Za Otlichiye a écrit: | It is quite clear from the last paragraph on page 39 that if you cannot reach the other side, interpenetration is not allowed.
The problem is that interpenetration is something of a process, while "pass through" is the completed successful result... |
Absolutely agreed. However that does not make it an obstacle, or something that you cannot interpenetrate. It just makes is something that you do not have the movement distance to pass through. |
I'm honestly still struggling to see how meeting a unit you are "not allowed" to interpenetrate (p39) is in any meaningful way different to meeting a unit you "cannot interpenetrate" (p48)
In a set of rules translated from French into 3 other languages, that's effectively arguing that its possible to conjure a whole, subtle, complex, corner case-applicable rule out of one, tiny, semantic difference between two chunks of the English translation, and then apply it to carve out an exception to the pretty basic and simple idea that evading units should do all they can (and use up all their movement allowance) to get as far away as possible from anyone charging them ... ?
Really .... ?
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018
Messages: 117
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 11, 2021 9:55 am Sujet du message: |
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The last time I was in that position it looked and sounded like a really really good idea.
Especially as I was wearing my sheepskin chalmis and was armed with my hunting sling and at the time I was running away from
Spartiates |
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