Art De La Guerre

[harryKonst]

I wish you to enjoy this great game the most Dave. Hope to see you soon. Greece after a decade of financial recession , almost two years of coronavirus and a strong propability of war since last Summer, little by little enters a better environment, so we believe if everything goes well we will be able to send teams again for international tournaments, after 2021. Be well and have a nice life.

[MC_Delicatessen]

[harryKonst]

MC_Delicatessen, would you say the same if there was a comma after the word 'slide'? : ' The medium swordsmen MI can perform a wheel and advance toward cavalry D or slide, to charge it.' Since we know that this movement contradicts p36 I believed there is a comma missing from the sentence, not a mistake, and both movements are referring to a charge. Any way, we have now Zoltan's post that covers my question. I hope to an official answer from the author.

[Ramses II]

V4 of the rules has a lot of cross-references which assist in clarifying particular points.
In this case (what manoeuvres a unit can make when in an enemy ZoC), BP2 reinforces the text of the Slide manoeuvre P30, Restrictions BP2 which allows a slide as part of a charge.
As a consequence, IMHO treating P35 BP2 in any way misunderstands the text.

So, the logic is

• The unit makes a "Charge manoeuvre" P41.
• This follows the Charge procedure P42, which governs the charge direction (section 2 and 4), in which the chargers "must respect the ZoC of the most threatening enemy (see p 35)", but may Wheel, Slide, or Turn and possibly wheel in order to make contact.
  
• P35 BP3 dictates the manoeuvres permitted in an enemy ZoC, which includes Turning, Wheeling or Sliding to become more aligned as part of the charge movement.

The text in P35 is split into two bullets to distinguish Sliding to charge, from manoeuvring to become aligned without contacting the enemy

[Mike Bennett]

[lionelrus]

[lionelrus]

[harryKonst]

So, Lionelrus as I understand, you are a member of the DT. The answer you give us is official. It's ok by me, I wanted an official clear answer, that we all (the international ADLG community ) can use as a guide. The following two examples of charging in the ZoC's of the most threatening enemies must also be wrong. Check page 50 the OTHER EXAMPLE picture (A1 unit's front enters the MTE's ZoC and then partly exits it before contact). Also on page 36 the ADVANCE IN A ZOC picture the passage says ; 'A2 could also advance straight ahead to charge B2', but that movement also makes the A2 unit's front to enter and then partly exit the MTE's ZoC. All those (wrong ?) examples and the different bullet about charging the MTE on page 36, made me believe something about charging while in the ZoC of the MTE was understood wrong by the readers.

[lionelrus]

P50, Schedule concerns conformation rules and not moving in ZOC
A1 contacts partly B1. All An group contact Bn group and all units are partly in contact. So, and AFTER contact, conformation rules made A1 get out B1 contact (and not B1 ZOC).

P36, only one picture get a B2 unit, i so suppose it's the arguing case.
" the movement is possible p to the limit indicated by the diagram", so for reason clearly explained in the text below the picture, A2 CAN'T charge B2 by a straight ahead movement.
A 2 can charge B2 only by wheeling first.


To be clear, i'm not DT member, i'm one of the (few) V4 redactors. Official answers can only be given by El Kreator Himself.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[MC_Delicatessen]

[MC_Delicatessen]

As a bright spark has pointed out on Facebook, there are lots of examples in the book where a wheel/turn in the ZoC is part of a charge:

"page 38, EXAMPLE OF ZOC, see what the CV in the picture does.(It makes a wheel or a quarter turn to align with A or charge it).
Go page38, see INVOLUNTARY EXIT FROM A ZOC , the Zoced Cv B turns 90, and it can charge of course.
Go page 37, SPECIAL CASE, B1 wheels to charge A2 which ZoCed it
Go page 46, EXAMPLE OF UNCONTROLLED CHARGE, unit H ZoCed by unit 8, turns 90 and charges."

In all these cases a wheel/turn is the only way to charge from within a ZoC and contact the enemy.

So, to my mind this highlights that p36 BP2 is definitely incomplete. There are cases when - not just a slide - a wheel/turn can be made to charge in a ZoC. (The English in p36 BP2 says "if needed, the unit can slide..." If it said "if necessary to enable contact, the unit can slide, wheel or turn..." or something like that, it would be clearer.)


The question I have then is, can you wheel (if you become more aligned) during "any" charge within a ZoC, or can you only wheel/turn if you have to (to contact the enemy with a charge in a ZoC)?

[harryKonst]

MC_Delicatessen, are you a new LADLG player ? I'm afraid we'll have to wait patiently for an official answer, my friend. Meanwhile I inform you that Χάρης Κωνσταντάρας who wrote those examples in facebook and harrykonst of this forum are the same person, me. I use my greek name in facebook. Of course you can make a variety of actions while in the ZoC of an enemy unit, in order to charge. As for the rest, lets hope to an official answer soon.

[lionelrus]

I'm sorry, but it's seems you absolutly want get round the rule about this, dispite all explainations already given. So, as all is allready written in the rule, i'm afraid no official answer will be given.
As far i'm concerned, i will no more post about this.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[MC_Delicatessen]

[MC_Delicatessen]