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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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 Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 9:34 am Sujet du message: Terrain removal on rolling a six [Resolved] |
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The new rule is
| Citation: | | When adjusting terrain, a "6" allows the removal of a terrain piece only the first time it is rolled. Subsequent "6"'s become "Rotate or UD move". |
Is this per player or per game? The section on page 76 is ambiguous:
| Citation: | | except ... if another terrain piece has been already removed in this manner. |
I assume it's per player. Is this the general view?
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Martin Stephenson
Dernière édition par vexillia le Sam Aoû 14, 2021 8:52 am; édité 2 fois |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 11:16 am Sujet du message: |
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| Yes |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009
Messages: 978
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 7:31 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hum... the french version indicates that another terrain has been already removed, not specifying by this player.
It seems to limit the emptiness of the battlefield: only one terrain in total can be removed.
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Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 8:14 pm Sujet du message: |
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So which is it?
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Martin Stephenson |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 8:34 pm Sujet du message: |
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| vexillia a écrit: | | So which is it? |
I am sure someone will be asking a member of the DT as we speak...
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 9:40 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hi Gavin / Martin
How did you come to the conclusion that each player can remove a terrain piece please? The table on page 76 simply says if another piece has already been remove, no qualification that each player is allowed to remove one that I have seen. It seems clear to me that “in this manner†means in this “terrain adjustment†section, e.g. not during the “placing other terrain elements†section if it did not fit as there was no space in the diced sector.
Dernière édition par Mike Bennett le Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:41 pm; édité 1 fois |
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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:04 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Citation: | | How did you come to the conclusion that each player can remove a terrain piece please? |
As I said in the OP "I assume[d]" it was likely to be per player simply because everything else in this section is per player. I raised the question for the very reason you've outlined: the text is ambiguous.
I don't mind either way I just want to know what was intended.
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Martin Stephenson |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:40 pm Sujet du message: |
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| vexillia a écrit: | | Citation: | | How did you come to the conclusion that each player can remove a terrain piece please? |
As I said in the OP "I assume[d]" it was likely to be per player simply because everything else in this section is per player. I raised the question for the very reason you've outlined: the text is ambiguous.
I don't mind either way I just want to know what was intended. |
Similarly I do not mind what the final views is, but I do not see why you seem to think that I agree that is ambiguous, and indeed i do not see any ambiguity. For me it is clear, it says if a piece has already been removed, without any qualification by that player.
If I understand your view is that it is ambiguous as this section is by player? However there are other parts of terrain which are collective, such as the table with the maximum pieces of a type in a geographic region, or 3 pieces in one half of the table.
Dernière édition par Mike Bennett le Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:58 pm; édité 2 fois |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:48 pm Sujet du message: |
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P75, Placing terrain elements, 3rd bullet reads | Citation: | | The first time a terrain piece cannot be placed on the table due to lack of space the player may re-roll the dice for placement. This re-roll is allowed only once for each player. If the terrain still cannot be placed, it is then discarded. |
(my emphasis)
This seems clear to me that there are two such re-rolls, one for each player - no ?? |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 10:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Ramses II a écrit: | P75, Placing terrain elements, 3rd bullet reads | Citation: | | The first time a terrain piece cannot be placed on the table due to lack of space the player may re-roll the dice for placement. This re-roll is allowed only once for each player. If the terrain still cannot be placed, it is then discarded. |
(my emphasis)
This seems clear to me that there are two such re-rolls, one for each player - no ?? |
I agree for page 75 on placing terrain as you have quoted each player gets a re-roll. It is specifically worded that way and so could not be much clearer. However it as a huge stretch to then reapply these same words to Martin’s question about page 76 adjusting terrain, were no such wording exists. Indeed this use of different wording demonstrates a different approach, and reinforces the view that for terrain adjustment it is only once for both players not once each.
Anyway I dial out of this debate now, unless there are specific words in the rules I have missed, or an errata from El Kreator to change the words. For me it could not be much less ambiguous. |
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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 7:27 am Sujet du message: |
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| Mike Bennett a écrit: |
Anyway I dial out of this debate now, unless there are specific words in the rules I have missed |
There's always the 2nd bullet on p76 in the Terrain adjustment section:
| Citation: | | Only one attempt per player per terrain piece ... |
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Martin Stephenson
Dernière édition par vexillia le Dim Juin 13, 2021 9:40 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 7:33 am Sujet du message: |
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| vexillia a écrit: | | Mike Bennett a écrit: |
Anyway I dial out of this debate now, unless there are specific words in the rules I have missed |
There's always the 2nd bullet on p76 in the Terrain adjustment section:
| Citation: | | Only one attempt per player per terrain piece ... |
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Exactly. When it means one per player it says it. |
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Longtooth
Signifer
Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
Messages: 349
Localisation: Oxford
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 8:18 am Sujet du message: |
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Think I agree with Mike.....the wording is pretty clear. Only one piece of terrain gets to be removed.
Jesse |
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I never roll a six
Gladiateur
Inscrit le: 07 Oct 2014
Messages: 39
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 11:47 am Sujet du message: |
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I agree with Mike.
The criterion for removing a terrain piece if you roll a 6 during terrain adjustment, in the box on page 76 of the rules, is expressed in relation to "if another terrain piece has been already removed" NOT "if the player has already removed a terrain piece."
To me, this means that only ONE piece can be removed. The defender can only try to remove a terrain piece if the attacker has not removed one.
regards |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 9:39 pm Sujet du message: |
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| The rule as written is pretty clear, this is a clear rule change from V3, and there are not knock-on effects that make this silly. One piece can be removed period. If that was not the intention then El Kreator will have to step in. |
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