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90 German
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 08, 2018 1:01 pm    Sujet du message: 90 German Répondre en citant
90 German list for an upcoming Classical/Roman period tournament. Arminius and Sybarites are verboten! Sad

1st Corps
Competent
3x Medium cavalry elite
2x Light cavalry javelin

2nd Corps
Competent
6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
3x Light infantry javelin
1x Light infantry bow

3rd Corps
Competent
6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
3x Light infantry javelin
1x Light infantry bow

200pts, 25 units, initiative 2


What do you reckon? I'm expecting to face a lot of pikes (for my HI to charge at) and elephants (for my LI javelins to throw sticks at). Is this reasonable?
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 3:02 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Yes this is a solid

I might remove 1 LI from each of the infantry
remove the competenet from the cavalry
then buy more HI or MC

They are not many armies that will want to fight you 12 wide. The issue is you maneuver like a brick.
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Commodore
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012
Messages: 1194
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 5:08 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
Yes this is a solid

I might remove 1 LI from each of the infantry
remove the competenet from the cavalry
then buy more HI or MC

They are not many armies that will want to fight you 12 wide. The issue is you maneuver like a brick.


right! and for the cav an included ordinary is enough. THe gen acn even be unreliable
And if you remove one HI you may have 2 MC elite, one in each 2nd and 3rd corps. Ideal for 2nd line troops and flanl covering. That left an attack front of 11.
_________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 8:36 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thank you both! I now have my rulebook in front of me, and can see that I can't have that many competent commanders! So, taking into account your advice...

90 GERMAN CAVALRY

1st Corps: Teutons
Included and Unreliable: Teutobod
4x Medium cavalry elite
2x Light cavalry javelin

2nd Corps: Cimbri
Competent: Boiorix
6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
3x Light infantry javelin
1x Light infantry bow

3rd Corps: Cimrbi
Competent: Lugius
6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
3x Light infantry javelin
1x Light infantry bow

200pts, 26 units, initiative 2

Q1: I could downgrade all the HI to MI, and take my full complement of 6 Fortifications and a Fortified Camp. Too dependent on terrain?

Q2: Would you transfer the two LCv to the other two corps, and use them to plug gaps in the line?
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 9:47 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
An alternative would be to lose the MCv, and go all-infantry:


90 GERMAN INFANTRY

1st Corps: Teutons
Ordinary: Teutobod
5x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
2x Light infantry bow

2nd Corps: Cimbri
Competent: Boiorix
5x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

3rd Corps: Cimrbi
Competent: Lugius
5x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

200pts, 25 units, initiative 2


I think this would be a more one-dimensional army however.
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Truscott Trotter
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 04 Déc 2017
Messages: 12
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 10:27 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I was about to suggest a similar list.

Take 15 HI and ram them in your opponent's face.

Only change I would make is drop 1 LH and get a fortified camp.
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ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 11:28 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I like have something like 2 MC + 2LC but would put them in a corps with a Brilliant general. Drop another general down to ordinary included and give him 2 swordsmen and a LI.
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Snowhitsky
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 224
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Mar Oct 09, 2018 11:48 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I'd have 1 MC in each corps just to keep enemy mounted and skirmishers honest. The all infantry commands will make it relatively easy to ignore one or even two commands and concentrate against the other(s). Having one unit of cavalry in each command will give you some flexibility in an otherwise very unmanoeuverable army and your opponent won't be able to manoeuvre quite so carelessly near your commands.
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Mer Oct 10, 2018 12:29 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Here we go then:


90 GERMAN

1x Fortified Camp
5x Fortifications

1st Corps: Teutons
Ordinary: Teutobod
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin

2nd Corps: Cimbri
Competent: Boiorix
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

3rd Corps: Cimrbi
Competent: Lugius
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

200pts, 24 units, initiative 2


I suppose I would use the fortifications to defend my flanks.


An option could be to make the Ordinary general Unreliable, lose the Fortifications and Light Cavalry, and buy two more HI units. Would that be worth doing? My initiative is so low anyway, it barely seems worth taking the two LCv.
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Commodore
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012
Messages: 1194
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mer Oct 10, 2018 2:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser a écrit:
Here we go then:


90 GERMAN

1x Fortified Camp
5x Fortifications

1st Corps: Teutons
Ordinary: Teutobod
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin

2nd Corps: Cimbri
Competent: Boiorix
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

3rd Corps: Cimrbi
Competent: Lugius
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

200pts, 24 units, initiative 2


I suppose I would use the fortifications to defend my flanks.


An option could be to make the Ordinary general Unreliable, lose the Fortifications and Light Cavalry, and buy two more HI units. Would that be worth doing? My initiative is so low anyway, it barely seems worth taking the two LCv.

You will have an init of +1 only. With this kind of army, with only forest as terrain, it is better to have an high initiative ( i.e. +3 with Arminius, too bad for the theme!) as you have a very strong shock power but the army is very slow and moving first guarantee you to reach at least mid-battlefield before enemy start to slow your advance. You are also setting up second, so can place your unmanoeuvrable units in front of their target. With forest as your lone terrain, a full mounted opponent as no choice than giving you initiative if he won it to avoid to fight in forest. try to keep the team MC/LC on your wings as the LC can shelter MC from foot or mounted bowmen. Remember also that, in front of cataphract, it is better to send your elite MC than your HF, your cav fight as equal (except armour) and you can easily break off.
_________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Mer Oct 10, 2018 3:18 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I think I have now had three main pieces of advice:

    Take no cavalry
    Take cavalry, and spread it amongst the corps as a second line
    Take cavalry, and use it as a corps on a wing


All very different approaches! Presumably this means different strategies are valid?

I am leaning towards the third option. It is more visually appealing if nothing else!
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Truscott Trotter
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 04 Déc 2017
Messages: 12
MessagePosté le: Mer Oct 10, 2018 5:52 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In my book 4+ Heavy Cav is a cavalry wing. 3 medium cavalry is a 'target' Rolling Eyes Laughing
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Mer Oct 10, 2018 10:37 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The role of the medium cavalry is to hinder or delay enemy attacking the flanks of the HI, to act as a mobile reserve to cover any holes that appear during melee, and just possibly to pursue isolated enemy units in the end game. 

There are only 3-4 medium cavalry but they are really quite good if they are elite, and should have 1 or 2 LC to help them. If you keep 1 MC in each of two infantry corps you can group 2x MC and 2x LC as a small cavalry corps under an included ordinary general. With this configuration you might include a LC in the ‘outside’ infantry corps. 

If you choose to have three infantry corps the the two ‘outer’ corps would each have cavalry, while the central corps might get away with keeping a unit in reserve in the second line. 

As Commodore says, taking Arminius as the Strategist makes sense, so even if you win the initiative against an opponent without mountain or forest terrain, you can still defend in your own forest. The intention is to close down the table as much as possible, so taking fortifications is another key tactic - and your medium cavalry can happily defend behind them if need be (so not such a ‘target’ as they may seem). 

Personally I favour two infantry corps, commanded by strategist and ordinary generals, and one small cavalry corps with an included unreliable ordinary general (to maximise additional points). 
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Janos Hunyadi
Auxiliaire


Inscrit le: 21 Oct 2016
Messages: 81
MessagePosté le: Jeu Oct 11, 2018 9:44 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser a écrit:
Here we go then:


90 GERMAN

1x Fortified Camp
5x Fortifications

1st Corps: Teutons
Ordinary: Teutobod
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin

2nd Corps: Cimbri
Competent: Boiorix
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

3rd Corps: Cimrbi
Competent: Lugius
1x Medium cavalry elite
4x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
2x Light infantry javelin
1x Light cavalry javelin

200pts, 24 units, initiative 2


I suppose I would use the fortifications to defend my flanks.


An option could be to make the Ordinary general Unreliable, lose the Fortifications and Light Cavalry, and buy two more HI units. Would that be worth doing? My initiative is so low anyway, it barely seems worth taking the two LCv.


If you have a brilliant or Arminius commander he can also control the bulk of your impetuous foot, 3 pip minimum per turn

For me 6 Fortifications are better value than the fortified camp

I prefer the 3 MC with inc ordinary general and 2 LC

Maybe a bigger infantry command with the better general.
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Jeu Oct 11, 2018 10:35 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Once again I am amazed by the quantity and quality of responses on this forum! Truly ADLG is a game of gentlemen and women.

First game with this list is tomorrow. Here goes:

    90 GERMAN

    1x Fortified Camp
    2x Fortifications

    1st Corps: Teutons
    Ordinary, included & unreliable: Teutobod
    2x Medium cavalry elite
    2x Light cavalry javelin

    2nd Corps: Cimbri
    Competent: Boiorix
    1x Medium cavalry elite
    6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
    3x Light infantry javelin

    3rd Corps: Cimrbi
    Competent: Lugius
    1x Medium cavalry elite
    6x Heavy swordsmen impetuous elite
    3x Light infantry javelin

    200pts, 25 units, initiative 2


Something we haven't discussed is what to do with the fortifications! I have no idea.
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