Art De La Guerre

[Andy Fyfe]

Hi Guys,

From p66:

A camp is treated as an enemy unit without a ZoC.

Does it have a facing (i.e. is there a front and a flank and if so how are they identified)?

If the camp is attacked on a corner but the attacker does not start behind the 'front' (long edge) of the camp can it conform to the 'flank' (short edge) of the camp?

Andy

[KevinD]

I assume no front, flank or rear. All sides are the same. No flank rule so no problem hitting a “flank edge” if you don’t start behind the ‘“front edge” (wherever that is).

[Neep]

The question occurred to me when camps was recently discussed, but I refrained from raising the issue for fear I might cause a medical emergency.
Camps don't necessarily have a long and short side, nor are they necessarily an even number of UD wide. Front edge is not defined and they do not have a ZoC. I think you just move into contact anywhere and sensibly conform. And if your opponent has a 2.5 UD face, you can put 3 units against it...

[Three]

A camp is 80x40, rear of long edge is on the table edge.
Enemy LC unit is exactly 5 UDs away and approximately at an angle of 45 degrees and to one side of the front facing long edge of the camp. It is not behind the short edge of the camp by a significant distance.
A friendly unit is placed at a 45 degree angle on the other side, and within angle to reach any point of the front facing long edge in it's next move.
The enemy LC contacts the front corner of the camp.
Can it then choose to conform to either the front edge or side edge?
The rules are silent in the "attacking the camp" section on pg 66, but every other example of conformation says if you start in front of the edge facing your front, you conform to it, and to conform to the side edge you have to start at least partially behind that edge.
As I read the replies, it seems that the consensus is that the conformation rules don't apply to camps?

[Neep]

Here are some other issues. Most of them are quite trifling, and some aren't really in doubt but do illustrate the possible interactions.

The main issue is p. 66 a camp "is treated as an enemy unit without a ZoC" begs the question when is it not a unit? Melee is different, of course, but that's true for WWgs and they are units.

Can a commander flee to a friendly camp? well if it's a friendly unit you can. Not considering it a friendly unit creates ambiguities elsewhere.

Can you overlap a wheel through a friendly camp? - leaving aside the question of how you ever got there you can wheel through a friendly unit, but not impassible terrain.

You cannot make multiple moves within an enemy camp's tactical zone.

Are there restrictions on contacting the camp? there is no definition of the front edge, so probably no.

Must you charge the camp? well, if yes what about subsequent units? so maybe simpler to say no. Or everyone must. (How is this handled with WWgs? uh...)

Can WWg, Arty, or Expendable levies attack a camp? no, but it seems a little weird.

Does a camp provoke an uncontrolled charge? it is an enemy, so yes.

Can you spontaneously charge a camp? yes it is "enemy".

If a unit starts in flank or rear contact with the enemy camp, does it conform? Probably, although paying CP is a possibility.

How do you conform to a 3UD wide camp? 2.5UD camp? do it sensibly.

Can you shift the camp? - well of course not, but it was overlooked in the erratum with Arty, WWgs, and fortification, obstacle, or Stake defenders.

Does the camp's tactical zone affect rally attempts? - presumably this would be the same as multiple moves, but there is no explicit indication.

Is an enemy camp a shooting target? seems very unlikely but you have to argue it's not a "target" (or it's an obvious oversight).

Can elevated friends shoot over a camp? yes.

Can artillery shoot over camps? Perhaps not, the rules specify LH or LI.

Once the camp is lost, everyone can shoot over it as impassible terrain.

A unit looting a lost camp is considered in melee - does this mean it cannot be targeted for shooting? presumably, although the rule might only be intended to prevent it from making uncontrolled charges.
A unit looting a lost camp is considered in melee - if attacked in the rear or flank, will it turn to face in its next turn, just as it would if still attacking the camp?

A unit attacking or looting the camp is considered in melee - if then contacted in a non-melee situation, does it have to conform or does it simply remain still? - I think it will remain still. This will allow it another crack at the camp (or to stop looting) and delay a potentially adverse entry into melee.

Is the roll to stop looting require a command to then be given? NO, this was raised earlier, the roll is optional and otherwise freely made.

Does rampaging El reroll if they would otherwise enter impassible terrain? or an active camp? no indication you do so.

[navigator]

as my mum used to say... heavens to Betsy !