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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 760
Localisation: Scotland
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 Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 4:35 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Ramses II a écrit: |
Both end up with the same result, but the French way will potentially be faster, a significant benefit in time constrained tournament games. |
Its not the same result - as written in rules there would be no uncontrolled charge but under the French interpretation means there is.
I don't mind either, but if we're going to have a rules change I'd prefer it not to be slipped in this way. |
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Neep
Signifer
Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
Messages: 323
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 6:10 pm Sujet du message: |
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I'm taking this back. In my view, the LI cannot be the target because they fit into the exception. But the MI beyond them are targets. So, the impetuous MI must charge. The LI must evade but are not the "initial targets", the MI are. Therefore, the impetuous MI do not roll for adjusted charge distance.
Dernière édition par Neep le Ven Oct 18, 2024 12:07 am; édité 1 fois |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 668
Localisation: Texas
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 7:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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| It does not matter. The closest enemy in front is the LI. That is the target per p 45. It can only reach it by interpenetrating or bursting through so it does not make an uncontrolled charge per the exceptions on P 46. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1243
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 8:27 pm Sujet du message: |
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| AlanCutner a écrit: | | Ramses II a écrit: |
Both end up with the same result, but the French way will potentially be faster, a significant benefit in time constrained tournament games. |
Its not the same result - as written in rules there would be no uncontrolled charge but under the French interpretation means there is. |
I think you may be mistaking declaring a target with the conditions and exceptions for an uncontrolled charge. I was trying to explain that the French are summarizing the process to save time. The presence of friendly LI between you and the initial target removes the compulsion to charge, even though you may choose (under appropriate circumstances) to nominate a target behind the LI. |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 760
Localisation: Scotland
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 8:41 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Ramses II a écrit: | | AlanCutner a écrit: | | Ramses II a écrit: |
Both end up with the same result, but the French way will potentially be faster, a significant benefit in time constrained tournament games. |
Its not the same result - as written in rules there would be no uncontrolled charge but under the French interpretation means there is. |
I think you may be mistaking declaring a target with the conditions and exceptions for an uncontrolled charge. I was trying to explain that the French are summarizing the process to save time. The presence of friendly LI between you and the initial target removes the compulsion to charge, even though you may choose (under appropriate circumstances) to nominate a target behind the LI. |
We're talking about uncontrolled charge aren't we? The target is clearly specified on P45. In this case enemy LI. There is no option to nominate a second target in an uncontrolled charge under any circumstances.
Ofcourse the options are completely different under a controlled charge - this may be your confusion. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1243
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 9:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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So we (British) are in violent agreement   , but I am suggesting that French agree as well, even though Patrick’s document doesn’t go through the details.  |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1672
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 9:29 pm Sujet du message: |
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I feel like I walked into a pub where there is some massive disagreement but its completely unintelligble.
There will be an update to the FAQ in the fullness of time.
Does anyone have a succinct point? |
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Neep
Signifer
Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
Messages: 323
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 10:08 pm Sujet du message: |
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We will all be dead in the fullness of time.
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If anyone has access to the French original, it would be very helpful if you could post the exception bullet in full. |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 668
Localisation: Texas
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 10:19 pm Sujet du message: |
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Dan, See Steve’s original post:
—-
A unit of impetuous MSw has a unit of LI in front of it as a screen
2UD away is an enemy LI with a MSw behind it. Viz
M
L
L
M
—-
What happens?
1. Is the Impetuous Sword’s uncontrolled advanced cancelled by the exception on P 46 for targeting an enemy when you are required to interpenetrate or burst through a friend to target a light unit?
2. Or because there is an enemy heavy unit behind the LI, and because the LI must flee if charged, does the impetuous unit target that heavy unit and ignore the restriction on charging enemy lights through friends on P 46? |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1672
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 10:33 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Neep a écrit: | We will all be dead in the fullness of time.
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If anyone has access to the French original, it would be very helpful if you could post the exception bullet in full. |
I've been around for over 3,000 years. I am not half way done. Which is why i have no problem being clear who i am. |
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Neep
Signifer
Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
Messages: 323
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 10:45 pm Sujet du message: |
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| I'll use all my well-learned politesse. |
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SteveR
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
Messages: 381
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| Posté le: Jeu Oct 17, 2024 11:48 pm Sujet du message: |
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| KevinD a écrit: | Dan, See Steve’s original post:
—-
A unit of impetuous MSw has a unit of LI in front of it as a screen
2UD away is an enemy LI with a MSw behind it. Viz
M
L
L
M
—-
What happens?
1. Is the Impetuous Sword’s uncontrolled advanced cancelled by the exception on P 46 for targeting an enemy when you are required to interpenetrate or burst through a friend to target a light unit?
2. Or because there is an enemy heavy unit behind the LI, and because the LI must flee if charged, does the impetuous unit target that heavy unit and ignore the restriction on charging enemy lights through friends on P 46? |
Kevin there are two other options as well.
3. Does the impetuous foot instead slide one UD and charge the enemy LI on a slightly longer path.
4. Is the charge against the LI cancelled so it instead charges the MSw as it does not have an exemption from charging them. |
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Mark G Fry
Légat
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 588
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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| Posté le: Ven Oct 18, 2024 11:02 am Sujet du message: |
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Surely the best move is:
1) the LF charges the enemy LF
1a). if it stands there is a melee
1b). if it evades the impetuous MSW 'sees' the enemy MSw and can charge through their own LI at the enemy MSw (either impetuous or controlled)
2). if the two LF are engaged in melee, the impetuous MSw makes an uncontrolled charge into support of its own LF
Now what was that question???? 
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis |
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SteveR
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
Messages: 381
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| Posté le: Ven Oct 18, 2024 3:07 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Mark G Fry a écrit: | Surely the best move is:
1) the LF charges the enemy LF
1a). if it stands there is a melee
1b). if it evades the impetuous MSW 'sees' the enemy MSw and can charge through their own LI at the enemy MSw (either impetuous or controlled)
2). if the two LF are engaged in melee, the impetuous MSw makes an uncontrolled charge into support of its own LF
Now what was that question???? |
The question is how many CP does it cost to move the MSw without charging or making contact with the enemy?
Dan assures us that the next FAQ will answer all questions to everyone's complete satisfaction or he will buy the internet a beer. That sounds pretty confident to me. |
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Mark G Fry
Légat
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 588
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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| Posté le: Ven Oct 18, 2024 6:11 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: | I feel like I walked into a pub where there is some massive disagreement but its completely unintelligble.
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It must be a pre-Covid pub then, as post-Covid we are all just complaining about the price of the beer and how odd food has started to appear on the menu (not that old corner curled white bread and ham sandwich with the fluorescent yellow mustard on it, that's been in the glass cabinet since time immemorial) - and then there was the loss of the jar of pickled eggs of course. Hmmm ... things are not what they used to be 
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis |
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