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Art De La Guerre
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Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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 Posté le: Mer Sep 25, 2024 8:52 am Sujet du message: |
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Hi Steve
I've just checked out the other thread and I am no w confused again! 
Ramses II's last answer that includes reference to difficult terrain throws the whole thing up in the air again.
So ... if part of a group of impetuous HF that are all outside the Tactical Zone are in difficult terrain and part are not - the implication of the reply is that the whole group moves at the rate of the slowest unit - e.g. 2UD not 3UD and that only 1CP is paid to move them.
So ... by default ... in 'my' example' the 2 ranks of HF half-in and half-out of the Tactical Zone will apply the same logic?
As they say ... the "thot plickens" !!!
Cheers
Mark
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'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis |
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kevinj
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Inscrit le: 07 Fév 2017
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Localisation: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK
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| Posté le: Mer Sep 25, 2024 9:46 am Sujet du message: |
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Thart thread goes in a number of directions but I think the final post by Herve gives a solid resolution to this:
| Citation: | When outside 4 UD, the movement allowance of impetuous HI is 3 UD.
So it must move 3 UD or pay 2 CP to move less.
In consequence, if you have a group of impetuous HI and WWg, you must pay 2 CP to move only 2 UD as a group if it is outside 4 UD from the enemy |
This clarifies that, although the maximum distance the group may move is defined by the slowest unit, if other group members have a movement rate that is greater, and would cost an extra CP to move less than their maximum move, then the extra CP is applicable. |
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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| Posté le: Mer Sep 25, 2024 12:13 pm Sujet du message: |
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| kevinj a écrit: | Thart thread goes in a number of directions but I think the final post by Herve gives a solid resolution to this:
| Citation: | When outside 4 UD, the movement allowance of impetuous HI is 3 UD.
So it must move 3 UD or pay 2 CP to move less.
In consequence, if you have a group of impetuous HI and WWg, you must pay 2 CP to move only 2 UD as a group if it is outside 4 UD from the enemy |
This clarifies that, although the maximum distance the group may move is defined by the slowest unit, if other group members have a movement rate that is greater, and would cost an extra CP to move less than their maximum move, then the extra CP is applicable. |
Indeed Kevin - but the last post in the other thread, which was by Ramses II, states that in a similar situation, where part of a group of impetuous foot is slow by terrain, you only pay 1CP to move the whole group (at the slower rate), even though the two parts of the group (slowed by terrain) have different movement allowances, and move at different speeds.
With the same situation (differing move speeds) being applied to a group with units both inside and outside the Tactical Zone, the 1CP requirement should - in theory - apply to both situations surely - as in both cases part of the group are being forcibly slowed by the other part.
However, if we follow what Herve states on the other thread, then in both situations 2CPs should be required to move either of the two groups.
If that is the rule, that is the rule - but we have an apparent contradiction (IMHO). TBF I don't really mind what the answer is (1CP or 2CP) I would just like clarity and consistency (please  )
Cheers
Mark
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'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis |
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KevinD
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| Posté le: Mer Sep 25, 2024 4:23 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Agreed. I don’t see how you must spend 2 CPs for moving 2 in the open when part of the formation is >= 4 UD and part is not and yet only 1 CP if they are slowed because some are in slowing terrain while others are not. In fact I’ve always played that Impetuous Kn or Cv need to spend 2 CPs if part of their group is in Good Going and part in Rough (and hence have different max speeds due to terrain). |
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kevinj
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Inscrit le: 07 Fév 2017
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| Posté le: Jeu Sep 26, 2024 9:12 am Sujet du message: |
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| I agree that various people have given different answers, so my choice would be to go with the author's version. |
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Neep
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Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
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| Posté le: Ven Sep 27, 2024 7:44 pm Sujet du message: |
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Mark,
RII's last post referring to terrain on the thread http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8988 is:
| Citation: | Forgive me, but I think you may all be wrong here.
Where there are units with different movement allowances in a group, the group moves at the slowest rate - agreed.
But where the group contains impetuous units that are moving less than their maximum allowance, then moving a group containing some Impetuous units in this way costs 2CP (or even 3CP) unless it makes contact with the enemy.
This reduction in movement allowance may be caused by penalizing terrain or having units in different zones as outlined above. |
It is crystal clear and speaks for itself. Please quote your source if it is something else.
POSTSCRIPT
Mark, I don't want to drag this discussion into the murk. I see nothing in any of RII's posts on that thread that say anything close to what you are seeing. Like I hinted, you need to quote what you are seeing or check yourself.
Dernière édition par Neep le Ven Sep 27, 2024 11:53 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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Localisation: Bristol, UK
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| Posté le: Ven Sep 27, 2024 10:04 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Neep a écrit: | Mark,
RII's last post referring to terrain on the thread http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8988 is:
| Citation: | Forgive me, but I think you may all be wrong here.
Where there are units with different movement allowances in a group, the group moves at the slowest rate - agreed.
But where the group contains impetuous units that are moving less than their maximum allowance, then moving a group containing some Impetuous units in this way costs 2CP (or even 3CP) unless it makes contact with the enemy.
This reduction in movement allowance may be caused by penalizing terrain or having units in different zones as outlined above. |
It is crystal clear and speaks for itself.
Please quote your source if it is something else. |
You appear to misunderstand the point here Neep.
On the one hand Ramses II (in last his post in that thread) is saying that a formation/group of impetuous HF units that has units in both in difficult terrain (slowing its movement) and outside that terrain (so they should be moving their full move distance as they are impetuous) are able to be commanded using 1CP, despite the fact that the units outside the terrain are being slowed by those in the terrain.
However, in a similar situation (as outlined by Kevin above) where a formation/group of impetuous HF has some of its units within the Operational Zone (so must be moving at 3UDs as its normal move) and some inside the Tactical Zone (with a normal move distance of 2UDs) must be moved using 2CPs - as the faster moving unit is slowed by its slower moving companions.
My observation is that there should be consistency between the two situations in the rules - as both situations are broadly the same, a group of units moving at the speed of the slowest. Which for impetuous units mean that 2CPs must be expended (not 1CP).
Hope that helps clarify things?
Cheers
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis |
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