Art De La Guerre

Gingerdave · Barbare Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017 Messages: 29

"After any change in orientation, the evading units has enemy units . . . situated less than one UD directly ahead that cannot be avoided by a slide of one UD or less." p48.

There's nothing to say that LI can't block an evade, as there was in v3.

p49 states that "If an LI would be contacted in open terrain by an evading heavy troop, the LI must itself try to evade" but if the LI has blocked the evade the unit isn't moving.

Or have I missed something?

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 1:44 pm Sujet du message:

How would an evading LI block an evade?
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

Gingerdave · Barbare Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017 Messages: 29

The evading LI doesn't block the evade.

The sequence goes:
Enemy charges.
Target turns to evade.
Target discovers enemy units <1UD away that it's can't evade by sliding.
Evade is blocked, the move is cancelled.
The evading unit never contacts the LI so the LI doesn't have to evade.

The LI-must-evade rule is in the description of the evade move. If the move had begun, the LI would have to evade.

I'm not saying I'm right, just that I'm not sure.

daveallen · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 4:40 pm Sujet du message:

Take a look at

Page 47, 2nd column, Blocked Evade Move

The First Case specifies that in order to block the evade the enemy unit must exert a ZoC on the evader.

Since LI only exert a ZoC on other Lights (or in terrain) they don't block the evade of heavier troops in the open.

Dave
_________________
Putting the ink into incompetence

Gingerdave · Barbare Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017 Messages: 29

Yes, I noticed that.

On p47 it says 'Evades can be blocked in either of the following 2 cases:'

The first case is "evades blocked by ZoC" as you say. LI cannot do that in open terrain as they don't exert a ZoC, no problem.

However if you take a look at p48, first column:
"After any change in orientation, the evading units has enemy units . . . situated less than one UD directly ahead that cannot be avoided by a slide of one UD or less." This is the second case in which evades may be blocked.

The example is covered in the diagram on p47, Evade move blocked by enemy, in the second bullet. "LH2 cannot avoid C and B by a slide of one UD and the evade move is therefore blocked."

LH1 is blocked by B.
If B was LI, it would not exert a ZoC over LH1, so the evade would not be blocked.
C doesn't exert a ZoC over any of the LH, so case 1 doesn't apply, but case 2 does, and the evade is blocked. Even if LH3 evades, which it can, LH2 cannot slide far enough right to avoid C, and can't slide left because it can't interpenetrate LH1.

If C was LI, and was in a position that LH2 could not slide around C, would it block the evade? There's no easy sentence as there was in v3 that said LI can only block LI evasion.

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 7:11 pm Sujet du message:

P48 states

Zoltan · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 7:27 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses - just checking: are you saying that even under V3 (which some of us are still playing while we await delivery of V4) LI in the open (regardless of their orientation) do NOT block an evade by enemy who are themselves NOT LI? In other words, LI do NOT block the evade of (for example) LH or MC?

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 7:44 pm Sujet du message:

Yes. In V3, p39 6 - Evade, 4th bullet states "An enemy LI is not an obstacle in open terrain for heavy units. If an enemy LI would be contacted by an evading unit, it must itself evade".

The text in V4 has been modified slightly to clarify this situation, but the intent is still the same.

Zoltan · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 7:53 pm Sujet du message:

So even under V3, LI is still an obstacle to LC (LC is not heavier than LI)?

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 8:08 pm Sujet du message:

Correct.

The point is that V4 goes some way to removing the dreaded 'buttocks' of death. In V4, the evading LH may slide even if the enemy LI are within 1UD in an attempt to avoid the obstacle or enemy unit.

lionelrus · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 8:09 pm Sujet du message:

Zoltan · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 8:46 pm Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Dim Mai 16, 2021 8:57 pm Sujet du message:

Gingerdave · Barbare Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017 Messages: 29

Yes, that's probably how it should read.

However:

Ramses II · Post� le: Lun Mai 17, 2021 12:05 am Sujet du message:

No Gingerdave, while I understand what you are saying - that RAW enemy LI are 'a unit' and thus 'block' the path of an evade in step #2 - this is only true under certain circumstances.

Rather than explain in step #2 that LI are an obstacle that blocks enemy light troops from evading and which also blocks heavier enemy from evading when the LI are situated in terrain, the author has grouped this explanation with other expansions and descriptions in the bullets following the Evade procedure on p49 - for example that the evaders may not subsequently shoot, and what happens if the evaders are subsequently caught.