Art De La Guerre

[Andy Fyfe]

Hi Guys,

I think this is a simple question with a simple answer.

Units A and B charge unit 1 which has a friendly unit 1 UD to its left:



Unit A is in melee with unit 1

Unit B is in a support position to unit 1 but also contacts unit 2 by a corner (no overlap and no entry of ZoC).

What happens to unit B?

- Does it stay in place in support to A (and unit 2 conforms to it or moves away on their turn)?

- Does it conform to unit 2?

I think it stays in place and is in support; am I correct?

Andy

[Neep]

I recall an extensive discussion of this. I believe the outcome was that during a charge, you must prefer conforming into melee, i.e. B would conform to unit 2. However if this situation arises due to melee results, then you have the option to conform B into 2 or to remain in place as support.

[SteveR]

[KevinD]

Note that the charging player might be able to slide or wheel prior to the charge such that he does not touch 2 during the charge and thus will confirm B into support for A vs 1 rather than melee 2.

[Neep]

Steve, interesting idea and I can't say you are wrong. But as I see it, only bladed WWg are specified as having to pay 1 CP to optionally conform (in the errata). Artillery in non-melee non-support contact has the option to conform and no mention of a cost involved. I think otherwise you always have the option to conform into melee for free as usual, but if in support no requirement. I would have to dig up the original discussion to see if this was addressed at all.
---
Kevin, I'm not sure that's kosher. There is no limitation on how far you move during a conformation, so once B is in corner contact with 2, it might well be required to slide into full contact. It does start in charge range of 2. Otherwise the original ruling seems meaningless as you almost always avoid it.

[KevinD]

I don’t think conformation is chained. You conform to whomever you should at the end if your move/charge, not on any new target that is created during conformation.

[Ramses II]

I remember the earlier thread, but have not found it. However, in summary, I think the decision was that Charging took precedence over support, so would conform away the support position. 

Note, the order of the rules text is important. 
Charge and then conformation occur first, Support definitions is part of Melee which takes place afterwards. 

[Andy Fyfe]

[Ramses II]

This is the point.  A unit that has moved into contact, even by a corner, may be deemed to be charging (P42).

Unit A is charging into contact with unit 1. By definition Unit B cannot charge unit 1 (P42 special cases). However, it has moved into charge position with unit 2, and is not yet in melee (which takes place after the charge conformation), so must conform on unit 2. 

It is only in melee that the units are defined for the purposes of combat. 

[Neep]

I found the original discussion, here: https://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9085
It makes total sense; we just didn't remember it.

If a unit starts a turn both in front corner to corner contact and in support, then it is covered by page 51 Conforming units already in contact. Since it is already in support position, it has no obligation to conform. But it is not held either, so it's active player's choice. (Bladed WWg must spend 1CP to conform.)

If you charge into such a position, you must conform into melee.

If you move into such a position, you must stop short - the front edge contact requires a charge move.

If you conform into such a position, you must continue the conformation into melee. This might mean 1 1/2 UD slide in addition to perhaps a 1 UD slide in the charge. Kevin's ploy has been anticipated;-)

[SteveR]

The 2021 Official Ruling is, shall we say interesting.

Consider this situation

ABC
123


Let's say ABC are all medium spears, 123 are impetuous Medium Sword charging

2 destroys B, the other two tie. So 2 is required to pursue into the position of B.


A2C
1..3


Despite the double overlap the spears are lucky and once again it is a tie.


It is now the turn of 1,2 and 3. They have an ordinary included general fighting elsewhere and darn it roll a 1. So no CP for them.

However the sword player, with the ruling from 2021 safely in hand says "no problem - even though I am in simple support I choose to conform to the flank of one of the spears subjecting them to a multiple attack"

"Unit 1 is in support of unit 2 while not being in melee with any enemy, so it is not forced to conform on A, but may do so if the player chooses to do so."


Is this correct? May units in simple support and still in contact with an enemy always choose to conform for free if they wish?

[madaxeman]

[SteveR]

Thank you, Tim that is perfectly clear. 

[Neep]

I think the rule is that you cannot conform from simple support to melee support for free, but otherwise you can conform if in contact. But I might be surprised.