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Models for Impet vs Impact Knights?
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76mm
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Inscrit le: 18 Déc 2023
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Localisation: Washington, DC
MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2023 5:15 pm    Sujet du message: Models for Impet vs Impact Knights? Répondre en citant
Hi, I'm just getting into ancients and medieval minis, and will be starting with some 13th century feudal armies. Before ordering/printing any figures, I want to clarify what kind of models I should use for medium knights (impetuous) vs medium knights (impact)? IIRC I read that impact knights rely on the lance, while impetuous knights...don't. So does that mean that impact knights should be depicted with a lance, while impetuous knights should have a sword or mace? Or is there some other convention that is used?
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borkil63
Centurion


Inscrit le: 16 Avr 2013
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Localisation: Boukisthan
MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2023 5:16 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
There is nothing to distinguish the 2. They are the same models. But most of the time, the impact knights are often those of the religious orders (Templar, Hospitaller, Teutonic), of which you can try to make a sort of color code for those you wish to play in impact, and varied colors and emblems for the impetuous
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76mm
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2023 5:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks, I'm glad I checked!

I'm having similar problems with other types of troops...for instance, I see that I can have "Heavy Spearmen" and "Heavy Spearmen with Armor"...what is a Heavy Spearman without armor? I have a bunch of similar questions for various unit types....is there somewhere that goes into some detail about what types of models should be used to represent particular types of unit?

More generally, I've never played or even seen a minis game, but I'm guessing that the etiquette would be for your opponent to be able to clearly tell what troop types you have by looking at the models, or isn't it that easy?
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2023 8:51 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
At 15mm scale it’s often tricky to even see if troops have armour - and especially so for medievals where they could easily have chainmail under a surcoat

What most (all..?) of us do therefore is to make sure that we have a couple of readily identifiable units of troops like spears, so we can say at the start of a game  “The dudes with red shields are armoured, the green guys are not†- as often that sort of approach is easier for your opponent than relying on them spotting a bit of mail peeking out under a tabard. 

It’s no more onerous than that - make life easy for your opponent, and you’re all good 
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76mm
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MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 20, 2023 9:51 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks, makes sense. I'd still like to use figures as close as possible to correct so I guess will try to figure it out as I go.

Also, I plan to go with 10mm...I suppose that will make it very difficult to find opponents, but there AFAIK there is not an active group where I am anyway, and I don't intend to play in tournaments, etc.
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kevinj
Signifer


Inscrit le: 07 Fév 2017
Messages: 324
Localisation: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK
MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2023 9:35 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In ADLG the most important thing in game terms is the base width, If you have 10mm figures on a 40mm frontage base they would be usable against an opponent's 15mm figures and most people who play ADLG are sufficiently relaxed to have no problem with that.
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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Localisation: Bristol, UK
MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2023 1:31 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
76mm a écrit:
Thanks, makes sense. I'd still like to use figures as close as possible to correct so I guess will try to figure it out as I go.

Also, I plan to go with 10mm...I suppose that will make it very difficult to find opponents, but there AFAIK there is not an active group where I am anyway, and I don't intend to play in tournaments, etc.


You'll find that a lot of the 10mm manufacturers nowadays have a broad range of figure types - well worth looking at the Pendraken Miniatures 10mm ranges (for example).

As it can often be difficult to differentiate an armoured 15mm or 10mm figure from an unarmoured one - I often use flags or pennants on my armoured (or elite) units, as it reminds me that they are what they are (or at best that they are different from other units).
I also colour-code the backs of the bases in an army, to help differentiate which units are in which Corps - just with a stripe or couple of stripes of darker brown colour - as that helps me not get one Corps' units mixed up with either of the others, for ordering purposes (e.g. no stripe for 1st corp, 1 stripe for 2nd, 2 stripes for 3rd)
There are lots of little tricks you can use.

10mm on the standard 40mm frontage bases will look very spectacular as you'll have the space to form multiple lines and even do a bit of formation shaping.
NB: to differentiate my Roman Lanciarii (Javelinmen) from my Roman Auxillia (MF swd impact) for example - as both have 6 15mm figures on a 40x40 base - I base the Lanciarii in a wedge shape (e.g 3 ranks - 1 figure at the front, 2 in 2nd rank, 3 in the 3rd) whilst my Auxillia are in two lines of 3. That way I can quickly differentiate them. If I use Irregular Foederati (MF swd impetuous) - I try and base them in a 'clump' with an emphasis on more troops towards the front of the base - but I'm sure you'll develop your own ideas.
You might find that with 10mm you can double up on the number of infantry to a base.

Good luck with the project
Cheers
Mark Laughing
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2023 3:06 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
kevinj a écrit:
In ADLG the most important thing in game terms is the base width, If you have 10mm figures on a 40mm frontage base they would be usable against an opponent's 15mm figures and most people who play ADLG are sufficiently relaxed to have no problem with that.

Good to know...had no idea that people play with minis of different size. I'm new to this whole thing...
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76mm
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2023 3:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mark G Fry a écrit:

You'll find that a lot of the 10mm manufacturers nowadays have a broad range of figure types - well worth looking at the Pendraken Miniatures 10mm ranges (for example).

I plan to 3D print most figures but will definitely order a batch from each of Pendraken, irregular and MM to fill gaps and just check them out.

Mark G Fry a écrit:

As it can often be difficult to differentiate an armoured 15mm or 10mm figure from an unarmoured one - I often use flags or pennants on my armoured (or elite) units, as it reminds me that they are what they are (or at best that they are different from other units).

Thanks for the tip, great idea!

Mark G Fry a écrit:

I also colour-code the backs of the bases in an army, to help differentiate which units are in which Corps - just with a stripe or couple of stripes of darker brown colour - as that helps me not get one Corps' units mixed up with either of the others, for ordering purposes (e.g. no stripe for 1st corp, 1 stripe for 2nd, 2 stripes for 3rd) There are lots of little tricks you can use.

hmmm, are units usually assigned to the same corps every game? Wouldn't it depend on terrain, opponent, etc.?

Mark G Fry a écrit:

10mm on the standard 40mm frontage bases will look very spectacular as you'll have the space to form multiple lines and even do a bit of formation shaping.
NB: to differentiate my Roman Lanciarii (Javelinmen) from my Roman Auxillia (MF swd impact) for example - as both have 6 15mm figures on a 40x40 base - I base the Lanciarii in a wedge shape (e.g 3 ranks - 1 figure at the front, 2 in 2nd rank, 3 in the 3rd) whilst my Auxillia are in two lines of 3. That way I can quickly differentiate them. If I use Irregular Foederati (MF swd impetuous) - I try and base them in a 'clump' with an emphasis on more troops towards the front of the base - but I'm sure you'll develop your own ideas. You might find that with 10mm you can double up on the number of infantry to a base.

Yeah, this is the main reason I'm going with 10mm, but was going to ask about basing...I was guessing that there are "conventions" used in terms of number of files and ranks for each type of troops? The examples illustrated in the rules seem geared towards 15mm and seem a bit flexible for 6-10mm. I don't want to base everything and then find out that I did it incorrectly somehow. So for example, more than 2 ranks is OK for 10mm? I get that different troop types should have different densities and different degrees of symmetry/order, but otherwise any rules of thumb?
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 21, 2023 5:59 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Answers below in bold

76mm a écrit:
Mark G Fry a écrit:

You'll find that a lot of the 10mm manufacturers nowadays have a broad range of figure types - well worth looking at the Pendraken Miniatures 10mm ranges (for example).

I plan to 3D print most figures but will definitely order a batch from each of Pendraken, irregular and MM to fill gaps and just check them out.

> there are a lot of nice 3D sculpts available these days - good call

Mark G Fry a écrit:

As it can often be difficult to differentiate an armoured 15mm or 10mm figure from an unarmoured one - I often use flags or pennants on my armoured (or elite) units, as it reminds me that they are what they are (or at best that they are different from other units).

Thanks for the tip, great idea!

Mark G Fry a écrit:

I also colour-code the backs of the bases in an army, to help differentiate which units are in which Corps - just with a stripe or couple of stripes of darker brown colour - as that helps me not get one Corps' units mixed up with either of the others, for ordering purposes (e.g. no stripe for 1st corp, 1 stripe for 2nd, 2 stripes for 3rd) There are lots of little tricks you can use.

hmmm, are units usually assigned to the same corps every game? Wouldn't it depend on terrain, opponent, etc.?

> not always, but I generally find that I construct an army list (using the very good army list calculator available to download from this site) and then stick broadly to that army structure. But you are right in the fact that if you want to change your list often, then the marking of the back of the bases wont work.

Mark G Fry a écrit:

10mm on the standard 40mm frontage bases will look very spectacular as you'll have the space to form multiple lines and even do a bit of formation shaping.
NB: to differentiate my Roman Lanciarii (Javelinmen) from my Roman Auxillia (MF swd impact) for example - as both have 6 15mm figures on a 40x40 base - I base the Lanciarii in a wedge shape (e.g 3 ranks - 1 figure at the front, 2 in 2nd rank, 3 in the 3rd) whilst my Auxillia are in two lines of 3. That way I can quickly differentiate them. If I use Irregular Foederati (MF swd impetuous) - I try and base them in a 'clump' with an emphasis on more troops towards the front of the base - but I'm sure you'll develop your own ideas. You might find that with 10mm you can double up on the number of infantry to a base.

Yeah, this is the main reason I'm going with 10mm, but was going to ask about basing...I was guessing that there are "conventions" used in terms of number of files and ranks for each type of troops? The examples illustrated in the rules seem geared towards 15mm and seem a bit flexible for 6-10mm. I don't want to base everything and then find out that I did it incorrectly somehow. So for example, more than 2 ranks is OK for 10mm? I get that different troop types should have different densities and different degrees of symmetry/order, but otherwise any rules of thumb?


> Most ADLG players are pretty flexible - as long as it is easy to identify the units from your and their perspective you have a great deal of freedom.
10mm naturally lends itself to more figures on the base (& more creativity) and to put those extra troops into extra ranks.
I even do it with 28mm figures - so I differentiate my elite Thracian infantry by having them in 3 ranks of 2 figures (on a 60x60 base) whilst the non-elite ones are based in 2 ranks of 3.
I also base my commanders on Hexagonal bases (60mm across at max distance for 28mm or 40mm for 15/10mm) as again it helps to differentiate them from other troops also based on 60x60/40x40 square bases. Elite Elephants can have infantry support figures mounted alongside them on their base, and the different types of artillery can also be further differentiated by different numbers of crew (more for the larger/heavier caliber types).
It is also accepted convention that if a model wont fit on the standard base - a chariot or war wagon for example - that the depth of the bases can be lengthened to accommodated them. Although I doubt that you'll have that issue with 10mm scale.


Cheers
Mark
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