Art De La Guerre

ALEXANDER · Vétéran Inscrit le: 28 D�c 2021 Messages: 171

One last question to Page 41 unit A3

If the enemy B3 would be in the Zone of controll A3 could charge.

Does this mean... A3 can choose whether
he wants to act as a possible support to A3
or charge B3

or do impetuous troop have to charge B3
...while non impetuous can choose

or do ALL units have to charge B3 and cannot stop to give support?

madaxeman · Post� le: Ven Avr 15, 2022 1:27 pm Sujet du message:

Za Otlichiye · Post� le: Ven Avr 15, 2022 2:36 pm Sujet du message:

Good point Zo, I missed it. While in either case you make corner to corner contact, one's a charge (at least for B until A makes contact) and the other movement.
Much revolves around the implied timing of already in melee on page 41. Does this mean before the group moves, or during the course of the charge?
I'm of the belief you move individual units of a group charge, left to right or right to left if uncontrolled, or as you wish otherwise. This makes dealing with ZoCs and the current issue much easier to see and handle.
But even if you move the whole group to contact, at that point 1 and 4 are in melee with A and D, so I don't see any objection to B and C sliding and closing on 2 and 3.

The fly in this ointment is the illustration on page 44. C2, which doesn't make any contact with A, which, if charging alone would clearly strike B1 must stop in support of C1 This doesn't make sense narratively or mechanically (what happens when the charge is at an angle - is anyone going to be watching hawk-like to demand conformance into support?). It's not presented anywhere in the text. And because it is in an illustration caption it's tempting to think it just slipped through proofing.
I could understand may but must is just perverse.

Za Otlichiye · Post� le: Ven Avr 15, 2022 3:40 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1544

Ramses II · Post� le: Sam Avr 16, 2022 12:16 am Sujet du message:

In brief, replying to the original post, it now seems probable that the ruling in the game was incorrect.

We are informed that units A-D were perfectly aligned with units 1 and 4, which were exactly 2UD apart. It also seems that units 1 and 4 were 1UD ahead of units 2 and 3 (ie their ZoC aligned perfectly with the leading edge of units 1 and 4).

As such when the group A-D charges for 1CP it contacts 1 and 4 simultaneously, while B and C end up in corner contact with these units. As B and C have charged into contact, and not entered the ZoC of units 2 and 3, they are not permitted to 'slide along the flank' (p41) as none of the three bullet points apply. Continuing a charge does not apply either as they are in corner contact with the enemy. So B and C should stop where they are.

Note in the subsequent discussions a whole lot of "what ifs" have been raised which have only served to obscure rather than assist, especially the latest mention of Uncontrolled charging.
The text and diagrams covering Contacting the enemy (by charging or moving into support) do make sense with a little patience and effort. And as Hazelbark says, it is almost always the player who decides how and when the units are moved.