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Art De La Guerre
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Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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Three
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2017 Messages: 180
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Posté le: Lun Oct 18, 2021 2:37 pm Sujet du message: Resolved |
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This would work so much better with a photograph, but hopefully you can follow this one. This happened in a game at the weekend -
All contacts are legally and fully conformed, and due to angles of charge and conformation the 4 units are essentially in a column. There is less than 1 UD between the rear of Red LH1 and the front edge of Red LH2.
Blue unit facing down the page, fighting Red LH1
Red LH1 facing up the page - carrying 1 hit
Blue Light foot facing down the page, fighting Red LH2
Red LH2 facing up the page - carrying 1 hit
Red LH1 loses the melee and routs. What does it do?
1. Routs, and because it's path is blocked by Blue LI/Red LH2 melee, is simply removed.
2. Routs normally, passing through Blue Light Infantry and Red LH2, giving Red LH2 another hit and so routs it too.
3. Something else
There doesn't appear to be any exceptions to the Rout causes 1 hit on friendly units within 1 UD rule, but it didn't feel right routing through another melee. Opinion was split and we didn't find anything else to help us out.
What does the panel think?
Dernière édition par Three le Jeu Oct 21, 2021 9:20 pm; édité 1 fois |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Lun Oct 18, 2021 7:34 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ok, so I think you have a kind of sandwichÂ
Blue unit
R LH1
R LH2
Blue unit
The question is what happens to R LH2 when his friend breaks
Check the Game turn steps p23, and you find that all melees are completed first (including R LH2), then routs, then pursuits. So the result is;
- Both melees occur, R LH1 loses and will rout later
- Irrespective of the R LH2 melee result, R LH1 routs into  R LH2, causing a hit, routing that unit as well.Â
Both Red units are now removed, causing no further effects on the game (they don’t actually move as part of their routs)
- Now the victorious units advance.Â
————
Re-reading your post, the actual situation is
Blue unit
R LH1
Blue unitÂ
R LH2
Here, the fact that there is a Blue unit in the way prevents the rout of R LH1 from affecting R LH2. Note, the R LH1 does not actually move, we only check the 1UD zone behind the routers. This contains a Blue LI unit which will not rout, even if it is LI and the Red routers are heavier, because the routers do not “move into contactâ€. However it is just possible that the rear edge of R LH2 is in the zone, in which case they suffer a hit as usual (and rout if this is the final one) |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Lun Oct 18, 2021 10:11 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | Ok, so I think you have a kind of sandwichÂ
Blue unit
R LH1
R LH2
Blue unit
The question is what happens to R LH2 when his friend breaks
Check the Game turn steps p23, and you find that all melees are completed first (including R LH2), then routs, then pursuits. So the result is;
- Both melees occur, R LH1 loses and will rout later
- Irrespective of the R LH2 melee result, R LH1 routs into  R LH2, causing a hit, routing that unit as well.Â
Both Red units are now removed, causing no further effects on the game (they don’t actually move as part of their routs)
- Now the victorious units advance.Â
————
Re-reading your post, the actual situation is
Blue unit
R LH1
Blue unitÂ
R LH2
Here, the fact that there is a Blue unit in the way prevents the rout of R LH1 from affecting R LH2. Note, the R LH1 does not actually move, we only check the 1UD zone behind the routers. This contains a Blue LI unit which will not rout, even if it is LI and the Red routers are heavier, because the routers do not “move into contactâ€. However it is just possible that the rear edge of R LH2 is in the zone, in which case they suffer a hit as usual (and rout if this is the final one) |
So are you saying that the Cohesion Loss from friends routing (a) does or (b) does not extended through an intervening enemy unit?
Is there anything that blocks this route effect? Maybe impassable terrain (if there were a skinny spur in between the units. |
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Three
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2017 Messages: 180
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Posté le: Lun Oct 18, 2021 11:16 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hi Ramses,
Less of a sandwich and more of a 4 layer cake, blue/red/blue/red. The two blue units are facing in the same direction, down the page, the two red units are facing in the same direction, up the page.
I'm not sure of the significance of Red LH2's rear edge if both red units are facing the same way? It's front edge is definitely within the 1UD zone and it's rear edge out of it. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Oct 19, 2021 1:07 am Sujet du message: |
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Check p68, 4th bullet. There is no mention of intervening units either friendly or enemy. So I am saying that if any part of a friendly unit is in the 1UD zone behind a routing friend, it suffers a cohesion loss (Routing LI being a possible exception).
Given the situation outlined by Three, there is a 1UD zone behind the routing R LH1 that is partially filled by a blue LI. This allows possibility of a further Red Light unit to be partly in the zone in melee with the Blue LI and thus to be affected by the rout. |
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Snowhitsky
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015 Messages: 224
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
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Posté le: Mar Oct 19, 2021 7:19 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | Check p68, 4th bullet. There is no mention of intervening units either friendly or enemy. So I am saying that if any part of a friendly unit is in the 1UD zone behind a routing friend, it suffers a cohesion loss (Routing LI being a possible exception).
Given the situation outlined by Three, there is a 1UD zone behind the routing R LH1 that is partially filled by a blue LI. This allows possibility of a further Red Light unit to be partly in the zone in melee with the Blue LI and thus to be affected by the rout. |
Ramses II is correct. The rules leave no room for interpretation. Intervening enemy units (or terrain) does not shield friendly units from taking a cohesion loss for being 1 UD behind routers. |
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