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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 13, 2021 7:06 am    Sujet du message: List 263 Répondre en citant
The Order of St John list allows you have the Navarrese Company as an ally. Does that you can only have troops from the Navarrese Company subsection only?
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Longtooth
Signifer


Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
Messages: 349
Localisation: Oxford
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 13, 2021 7:36 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
It would be a pretty crappy ally if you used only Navarrese Company units.

I suspect that you can use the generic Navarrese options + Navarrese Company options in 1377-1378, and only the Navarrese Company options thereafter.

Jesse
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 13, 2021 10:20 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks, I agree with you, I just check my logic was sound.
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hcaille
Administrateur


Inscrit le: 20 Mai 2008
Messages: 2528
Localisation: Lyon
MessagePosté le: Ven Mai 14, 2021 6:09 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
You can use all units in list 240 except those noted "Not in Greece".
You cannot take English mercennaries for example
And you have to take the option "Navarrese company in Greece"
So you have to take at least 1 Italian Knight
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Ven Mai 14, 2021 6:30 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
hcaille a écrit:
You can use all units in list 240 except those noted "Not in Greece".
You cannot take English mercennaries for example
And you have to take the option "Navarrese company in Greece"
So you have to take at least 1 Italian Knight


Hervé thank you for making the Order of St John a much more playable list in V4.
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mar Mai 18, 2021 7:46 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
ALLIED CORPS
When adding an allied corps to your army, you
are required to include all troops with a minimum
of 2 or more units. Those with a minimum of 1
units are optional, before or after dividing the
number of minimum units required in the list?
After dividing the minimums of mandatory
units on the allied list, choices that have a
minimum of 1 unit are optional but must be
selected before recruiting any units with a
minimum of 0

Does mean if I only take the Navarrese Javelinmen from the main list and the optional units from the "Navarrese in Greece" I do not need to select a Navarrese and Gascon Knight from the main section?
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1464
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mai 20, 2021 5:57 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Black Prince a écrit:
ALLIED CORPS
When adding an allied corps to your army, you
are required to include all troops with a minimum
of 2 or more units. Those with a minimum of 1
units are optional, before or after dividing the
number of minimum units required in the list?
After dividing the minimums of mandatory
units on the allied list, choices that have a
minimum of 1 unit are optional but must be
selected before recruiting any units with a
minimum of 0

Does mean if I only take the Navarrese Javelinmen from the main list and the optional units from the "Navarrese in Greece" I do not need to select a Navarrese and Gascon Knight from the main section?


The Navarrese is no different to any other list, almost all of which have this same structure. It starts with a list of 'common' troops ("Navarrese & Gason Knights..." etc) which can be used by all of the subsequent "special campaign" options (in this case "Navarrese in Greece"), and then has further options for "special campaigns".

These "special campaigns" options exist in almost all lists, and may add to, amend or replace some of the options in the first part of a list.

In list 240 the "Navarrese Company in Greece" adds additional compulsary and optional troops to those listed at the start of the Navarrese list. It does not change or replace any of the minima or maxima from the start of the list, which therefore remain valid.

If you take ANY optional (ie listed as "0-X") troops from ANY part of the list in an allied contingent, the rules on Allied Contingents are that you need to include ALL minima from ALL parts of the list - even where that minima works out as 1.

So, field any optional troops at all from any part of the list and you have to take a Gascon Knight.
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Ven Mai 21, 2021 12:51 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Tim thanks for the reply. I thought that was the case but I want to check as it would have been useful the drop the Gascon Knight.
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KevinD
Centurion


Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 499
Localisation: Texas
MessagePosté le: Sam Sep 18, 2021 3:35 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
hcaille a écrit:
You can use all units in list 240 except those noted "Not in Greece".
You cannot take English mercennaries for example
And you have to take the option "Navarrese company in Greece"
So you have to take at least 1 Italian Knight


Why do you have to take an Italian Knight? I thought the only compulsory troops are 2-4 (4-8 halved and rounded down) Navarese Javelinmen.

The list allows 2-4 Italian Knights, halved rounded down for being an ally is 1-2. However, the 3rd bullet on page 87 says troops with a minimum of 1 need not be taken (unless you take any troops with a minimum of 0) thus leaving you with 0-2 Italian Knights.

At first I didn’t know if not taking troops with a minimum of 1 referred to 1 before or after halving and rounding down.

However, given the example where 3-6 Noblemen becomes 0-3 and 2-8 warriors becomes 0-4 and these troops only become compulsory to the ally if any militia (0-5 halved and rounded down to 0-2) are taken. (See the note regarding “Militia units†at the bottom of page 87.) Thus the rule has to be that allied troops that are 1 AFTER HALVING AND ROUNDING DOWN are not compulsory to bring and the Italian Knights should be 0-2 (or 1-2 if you bring any troops whose minimum is 0).

Or have I missed something here?
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Sam Sep 18, 2021 5:23 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I don't believe you are.

V4 is different than v3, so I think El Kreator was talking broadly here.
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