Art De La Guerre :: Voir le sujet

JohnTheBoring
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Post� le: Ven Mai 07, 2021 9:54 pm Sujet du message: Early Imperial
It says no Sarmatians in Britain. There is a Sarmatian gravestone in Chester Grosvenor museum.

Jhykronos
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Post� le: Sam Mai 08, 2021 7:07 pm Sujet du message:

JohnTheBoring a �crit:

It says no Sarmatians in Britain. There is a Sarmatian gravestone in Chester Grosvenor museum.

Ah, but does it date from the Early Imperial Roman period, or later?

But come to think of it, weren't the Sarmatians originally stationed in Britain by Marcus Aurelius? That -would- be during this list... maybe they're just trying to prevent players from using them with the somewhat dubious Claudian Elephant.
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lionelrus
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Post� le: Sam Mai 08, 2021 8:17 pm Sujet du message:
Was there enought sarmatian to make a full adlg unit? _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob" Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

Ramses II
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Post� le: Sam Mai 08, 2021 9:55 pm Sujet du message:
At least enough for Artur - of the round table fame . . .

Jhykronos
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Post� le: Dim Mai 09, 2021 10:53 pm Sujet du message:

lionelrus a �crit:

Was there enought sarmatian to make a full adlg unit?

5500 according to history. But again, without having the list yet, I suspect the restriction has to do with preventing you from using them in the Claudian invasion army.
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Nighthawk
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Post� le: Lun Mai 10, 2021 3:58 pm Sujet du message:

Jhykronos a �crit:

lionelrus a �crit:

Was there enought sarmatian to make a full adlg unit?

5500 according to history. But again, without having the list yet, I suspect the restriction has to do with preventing you from using them in the Claudian invasion army.

It’s pretty clear to me that it’s not permitted to use Sarmations in Early Imperial Roman armies fighting in Britain during any of the timeframe of the list (25 BC to 193 AD).

The English and French versions of the relevant section are consistent: Armée de l’ouest: Sarmates (sauf en Angleterre) / Western Army: Sarmatians (except in Britain)

Although a French speaking rules lawyer may want to try and argue that they could be used in Scotland (conveniently forgetting that the French use England and Britain interchangeably)!

If the restriction was intended to be limited to the Claudian invasion it would appear in the same section as the heffalump.
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Jhykronos
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Post� le: Lun Mai 10, 2021 8:12 pm Sujet du message:

Nighthawk a �crit:

Jhykronos a �crit:

lionelrus a �crit:

Was there enought sarmatian to make a full adlg unit?

5500 according to history. But again, without having the list yet, I suspect the restriction has to do with preventing you from using them in the Claudian invasion army.

It’s pretty clear to me that it’s not permitted to use Sarmations in Early Imperial Roman armies fighting in Britain during any of the timeframe of the list (25 BC to 193 AD).

The English and French versions of the relevant section are consistent: Armée de l’ouest: Sarmates (sauf en Angleterre) / Western Army: Sarmatians (except in Britain)

Although a French speaking rules lawyer may want to try and argue that they could be used in Scotland (conveniently forgetting that the French use England and Britain interchangeably)!

If the restriction was intended to be limited to the Claudian invasion it would appear in the same section as the heffalump.

Right, but does the list actually have any other options that pertain to Britain -except- for those of the Claudian invasion?
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JohnTheBoring
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Post� le: Lun Mai 10, 2021 8:33 pm Sujet du message:
The museum notes say they were stationed at Ribchester following their defeat by Marcus Aurelius, so after 175AD. The stone has him riding holding a dragon standard.

madaxeman
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Post� le: Lun Mai 10, 2021 10:45 pm Sujet du message:

JohnTheBoring a �crit:

The museum notes say they were stationed at Ribchester following their defeat by Marcus Aurelius, so after 175AD. The stone has him riding holding a dragon standard.

I suspect the answer is that the author either hadn’t heard of this specific stone in this museum, or that he had, but had some other reason not to trust the dates and numbers proposed by the museum

Based on how v3 was managed, I doubt this is going to be changed - nothing was changed on the basis of petitioning for list changes during the lifetime of v3.

It may be frustrating, however it is worth remembering that constant list changes off the back of players presenting items of evidence to petition for changes in their favoured lists has ruined many a ruleset, so the advantages of consistency and stability are not to be underestimated..
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Nighthawk
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Localisation: Neuilly-sur-Seine

Post� le: Mar Mai 11, 2021 8:52 am Sujet du message:

madaxeman a �crit:

JohnTheBoring a �crit:

The museum notes say they were stationed at Ribchester following their defeat by Marcus Aurelius, so after 175AD. The stone has him riding holding a dragon standard.

I suspect the answer is that the author either hadn’t heard of this specific stone in this museum, or that he had, but had some other reason not to trust the dates and numbers proposed by the museum

Based on how v3 was managed, I doubt this is going to be changed - nothing was changed on the basis of petitioning for list changes during the lifetime of v3.

It may be frustrating, however it is worth remembering that constant list changes off the back of players presenting items of evidence to petition for changes in their favoured lists has ruined many a ruleset, so the advantages of consistency and stability are not to be underestimated..

I agree. Overall I think the author has done a good job of condensing 5000 years of ancient and medieval military history into a playable set of rules and decent army lists. There will always be contentious interpretations of historical facts.

To maintain clarity for everybody, the only things that should changed are manifest errors or translation / transcription errors, which given the size and complexity of the document, there will inevitably be a number of both.
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