Mark G Fry
Signifer
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 337
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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 Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 10:11 am Sujet du message: Impetuous 'trapped' by enemy ZOC from rear? |
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In a recent game a line of 4 Medium Knights, impetuous are faced by a line of 5 enemy HC bow. The HC are positioned so they are just outside 1UD of the knights, so neither are ZOC'd by the other. However the HC are also positioned slightly off-set to the knights (so that the overlapping HC can pass the knights flank easily without touching it).
The knights have moved into this position in their move and are commanded by an Ordinary General (who is attached to one of the central knight units).
In the HC's turn, the overlapping HC makes a move forward of 3 UD at a slight angle and turns 180 degrees. This puts the end enemy knight into its ZOC from the flank/rear.
All 4 other HC remain stationary and shoot (with varying results).
In the knights next move, the Ordinary General rolls a d:1 - so has a command value of 1 + the Commanders pip. Whilst he is attached to one of the knight units, he still doesn't have enough pips to stop the knights from moving and they will have to charge the HC to the their front.
However, the knight on the end of the line - which is in the ZOC of the HC to its rear - cannot be part of the charge, as the HC to its front are outside its own ZOC and it is ZoC'd in its rear.
As the knight's general doesn't have enough PIPs to turn it around to charge the HC in its rear - and as there are no other enemy units within its ZOC - were we right in saying that in effect it has to remain stationary and cannot join the charge of the other 3 knights at the enemy HC to its front?
As the knight general doesn't have enough PIPs to turn the ZOC's knight around to attempt to charge the HC in its rear, it is in effect 'trapped' by the enemy ZOC.
As it has no enemy unit within its own ZOC to its front it cannot make an uncontrolled charge forward either.
Hope all this makes sense.
Thanks
Mark |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1474
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 11:50 am Sujet du message: |
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Uncontrolled Charge p45
Section on Resolution of Uncontrolled Charges
The 2nd and last bullets here, together with the 2nd bullet point on p46 in the section "Exceptions to an Uncontrolled Charge" fully and clearly address the situation you have described,
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www.madaxeman.com |
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Mark G Fry
Signifer
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 337
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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| Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 4:45 pm Sujet du message: |
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| madaxeman a écrit: | Uncontrolled Charge p45
Section on Resolution of Uncontrolled Charges
The 2nd and last bullets here, together with the 2nd bullet point on p46 in the section "Exceptions to an Uncontrolled Charge" fully and clearly address the situation you have described, |
Thanks Tim - I'm probably not making my question clear here 
I agree completely with all the points you highlight (on page 45 and on page 46) stating that it the ZoC'd knights not subject to an obligatory charge.
My question really relates partly to the 'most threatening enemy' definition - as described on Page 37.
Even though the HC bow to the knights front, is over 1UD away from the knights (so neither are ZoC'd) - does that HC bow count as the most threatening enemy, as it is to the knights front? We ultimately agreed that it did not, as it had not ZoC'd the knight & the knight was ZoC'd from its rear.
Also as the unit of knights is 'trapped' by the ZoC to its rear, it cannot join the (commanded) charge of its companions, or move to give them support - as both mean moving out of the rear ZoC.
However, Page45 Resolution of uncontrolled charges, point 1 states " If any such enemy exerts a ZoC on the unit, the most threatening enemy (see P.35) is chosen, excluding any enemy to the rear.
So the HC to the knights rear cannot be the subject of an uncontrollable charge by the ZoC'd knights. They cannot leave the ZoC of the HC to their rear as the knights commander doesn't have enough CPs (this game turn) to turn the ZoC'd knights around and charge the HC bow to its rear. Also it cannot make an uncontrolled charge to its rear, so in effect the ZoC'd knight unit is 'trapped' and must remain stationary, whilst its companions charge the line of enemy HC bow to their front.
It was this point we wanted clarification on.
We think we have played it right ... but other's may know better??? 
Much appreciated
Mark |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 445
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 6:52 pm Sujet du message: |
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1. Is the ZoCd knight subject to an uncontrolled charge? No!
2. Does the ZoCd knight have CP to make a move? No!
Nothing happens. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1546
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| Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 7:08 pm Sujet du message: |
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Mark sounds like you played it right.
Represents the confusion of forces that are left without orders as they get surrounded. Good reason to have an escort for knights. |
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Mark G Fry
Signifer
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 337
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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| Posté le: Lun Avr 10, 2023 8:39 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: | Mark sounds like you played it right.
Represents the confusion of forces that are left without orders as they get surrounded. Good reason to have an escort for knights. |
Excellent
Thank you
(NB: the HC bow elite destroyed all the knights in 3 turns of fighting - losing only one of their number. The flanking HC accounting for 3 knights destroyed with flank attacks)
Good to know we played it correctly. |
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