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Interpenetration
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Zoltan
Centurion


Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 10:05 am    Sujet du message: Interpenetration Répondre en citant
P.43 Interpenetrations allowed:
Bullet 4: Light cavalry can pass through other friendly mounted troops, provided they are oriented in the same or opposite direction. (my emphasis)

"Oriented in the same or opposite direction" seems to be being interpreted to mean that the interpenetrator and interpenetrated units are perfectly parallel. Thus, light cavalry can be prevented from evading through mounted friends if the friends are within 1 UD and not perfectly parallel to the light cavalry unit once the evaders have turned 90 or 180 degrees (and before any wheeling or sliding is done).

Is anyone interpreting "oriented in the same or opposite direction" more liberally to allow some degree of angle (i.e. not perfectly parallel) between the evaders and the interpenetrated units?
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lionelrus
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
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Localisation: paris
MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 10:50 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
light cav can wheel and interpenetrate.
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Zoltan
Centurion


Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 11:01 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
lionelrus a écrit:
light cav can wheel and interpenetrate.

Are you sure? I thought the wording requires that the interpenetration/obstacle “test†be undertaken after the initial reorientation of the evading unit. i.e. after the evader has turned 90 or 180 degrees but before it has made any slide (but not wheel). Check out P.38 right column, bullet point “After any change in orientation...â€

It would make perfect sense to allow the light cav to wheel to a parallel position and then interpenetrate. But this doesn’t seem to be how some players are interpreting the P.38 wording.
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SteveR
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
Messages: 284
MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 12:47 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I resemble that remark about some players Zoltan! Smile

You seem to understand why I think the rules to do not allow for a wheel. It is also helpful to look at step 4 on page 39 where it says wheeling "cannot be used to avoid an obstacle as defined in point 3 above"
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lionelrus
Magister Militum


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MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 5:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
read the rule
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SteveR
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
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MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 5:47 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi Lionelrus,

I have read the rule but cannot see where it says one may wheel in order to be able to interpenetrate. That does not seem to appear on page 38, and is not part of step 3 which addresses blocked evades.

The first place I see wheeling is mentioned is, as I quoted, on page 39 in step 4 where it specifically says that a wheel to match the charge path cannot be used to avoid an obstacle.

Can you be more explicit?
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Zoltan
Centurion


Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
MessagePosté le: Sam Juil 20, 2019 10:08 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
@SteveR - I'm with you on this and have myself experienced games where my opponent has NOT permitted my light cavalry to wheel to make itself parallel to friendly heavy cavalry in order to interpenetrate the heavy cavalry in an evade.

@Lionelrus - I would LIKE my evading light cavalry to be able to wheel in order to interpenetrate a line of friendly mounted who are close behind. But the rules do not appear to permit that.

P.38 Left column
"An evading unit may be blocked by an enemy or an obstacle that prevents manoeuvre. If this is the case, the evade move is cancelled...Evading is blocked in one of the following two cases:"

P.38 Right column (case two)
"After any change in orientation, the unit has an obstacle (a friendly unit that it cannot interpenetrate.....located less than 1 UD directly ahead (i.e. in its ZoC) that can not be avoided by a sideways slide of one UD or less."

P.43 Interpenetrations allowed bullet four:
"Light cavalry can pass through other friendly mounted troops, provided they are oriented in the same or opposite direction." Also bullet five. My emphasis. Oriented in the same or opposite direction is being interpreted my many players as meaning "perfectly parallel".

Thus, if a line if heavy cavalry is behind light cavalry within 1 UD and on an angle (i.e. NOT perfectly parallel), the light cavalry can NOT interpenetrate and therefore has an obstacle that prevents it evading. This seems lame and in need of a rules wording tweak.
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