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Light horse shooting target priorities
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 3:12 pm    Sujet du message: Light horse shooting target priorities Répondre en citant
Hi guys

As you can see I have made the mistake of reading and thinking about the rules.

I have always played that light horse shoot at the enemy closest to any edge since there arc of fire is all around. I am now pretty sure that is wrong. I notice page 9 that the nearest enemy is defined as that closest to your front edge. from page 46 priority it is the otherwise bullet but closest enemy, now cleatly measured to front edge, not to any edge or shooting edge

Views?
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 4:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
P46 Target Priority, special cases, 2nd bullet.
Citation:
As light cavalry/camelry shoot with an arc of 360, they always choose the nearest target.
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madaxeman
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 5:46 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
AlanCutner a écrit:
P46 Target Priority, special cases, 2nd bullet.
Citation:
As light cavalry/camelry shoot with an arc of 360, they always choose the nearest target.


Yep. "nearest target" in this context is pretty clear IMO that this is not related to any definition involving front edge
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 6:36 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Did you consider page 9. Nearest enemy is that located nearest to any point of the FRONT EDGE

Or course nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings
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Zoltan
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 6:57 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So where you have a 2x2 block of LC facing one direction, in reality can all 4 units shoot collectively based on any of the block’s 4 edges, as long as the target is within 2UD of at least 1 of the bases forming part of that edge?

i.e. the block can shoot all around; 360 degrees.

In other words, for LC every base edge counts as a front edge for shooting purposes?
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 7:02 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Citation:
Did you consider page 9. Nearest enemy is that located nearest to any point of the FRONT EDGE

Or course nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings


If you only consider the actual front edge then p46 would have no meaning. So you have to think of the front edge for shooting purposes, which for LC is every edge.
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lionelrus
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 7:56 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
LH always shoot on closerwithout considering P9. Lh is an exception to usual target priority.
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madaxeman
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 8:04 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike Bennett a écrit:
nearest enemy and nearest target are not the same words, so may also have different meanings


I think you may have just absolutely nailed it.

It's like we're in a whole new cool and crazy post-Barker world where the very idea that "different words have different meanings" isn't just a cart-load of heretical weird voodoo sh-t Wink
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Zoltan
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 8:32 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?

For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule?
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barnstormer
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 9:07 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Zoltan a écrit:
So where you have a 2x2 block of LC facing one direction, in reality can all 4 units shoot collectively based on any of the block’s 4 edges, as long as the target is within 2UD of at least 1 of the bases forming part of that edge?

i.e. the block can shoot all around; 360 degrees.

In other words, for LC every base edge counts as a front edge for shooting purposes?


My understanding of overhead shooting is that it only applies to the front. The back unit is corner to corner contact to the back edge and the range is measured from the front edge.
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barnstormer
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 9:23 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Zoltan a écrit:
So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?

For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule?



The FAQ states that "LC shoot at the enemy that is closest in its area of firing" I don't know why this would cause any confusion.

Shooting and charging are two different things. In your example you would have to charge the rear unit if the LC is in its ZOC (it exerts one because the LC is a light troop as well) otherwise it can choose. The rear unit is the closest within its area of firing so is the shooting target.
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madaxeman
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2019 11:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Zoltan a écrit:
So in practice what is the application of the p9 definition of nearest unit?

For example, I have a LF unit within 1UD of your LC unit’s rear edge. I also have a LF unit 2UD from your unit’s front edge. You are free to charge or shoot at either of my LF units. What is the practical application of the “nearest unit†rule?



The application is presumably that “nearest unit†defined on p9 is a defined phrase, in italics, with specific wording and a specific meaning, as set out on p9

Wherever the rules say “nearest unit†the definition of “nearest unit†set out on p9 applies

The phrase “nearest unit†doesn’t appear in the shooting & target selection section of the rules. So the definition on p9 doesn’t apply in shooting. 

I’m struggling to see how this could be any clearer tbh?



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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 12:31 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Different words, different meaning. Thanks for those who pointed out the different words. So it now seems to me with the benefit from other people’s understanding that for example

Nearest target seems relevant to shooting
Nearest enemy is relevant when called for in rules in those words, so for example; ZOC charge priorities, uncontrolled advance ....
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 12:53 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
All, see the FAQ P12 for a clear statement and diagram on LH shooting from a single base. Measurements are taken from the nearest edge to the target. 

Overhead shooting from a second unit is less clear. The wording on p49 indicates that the distance to the target is measured “from the front edgeâ€, which is at odds with the notion of shooting ‘360 degrees’. It also refers to the “front unitâ€, which needs clarification where the target is to the rear or flank of the LH units. 

I will check with the TB
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Zoltan
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 7:46 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks Mike and Ramses for the helpful replies.
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