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Ambush marker on the edge of terrain
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Snowhitsky
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 224
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 12:07 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike Bennett a écrit:
And are you allowed to ambush with part of your base (the edge touching the terrain) not in the terrain, but out of it, as it must be by this combat logic?


No. The unit has to be entirely in the terrain when placed on the table but clearly it is being ruled that the edge of terrain counts as terrain and the shifts gets you out of it. I think it’s one of those where a simple ruling may help play better than logic.
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Mike Bennett
Centurion


Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 2:36 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Must admit it seems crazy. In the same position you can be both in and out of the terrain based soley on the position of your opponent, not on your position at all.

If fighting parallel to the edge of terrain you are out of the terrain

However different answer if you stay in the same place and turn 90 degrees to fight someone to your flank in the terrain. Or even stay exactly as before but attacked in the flank and so not even a 90 degree turn. So a single base position is both in and out of terrain depending on the opponent position not it's own.

As you say we can work with anything once we know it, but this is an interesting:-) ruling
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daveallen
Tribun


Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 11:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Snowhitsky a écrit:
They will issue clarafications. I’m happy with a simple rule where everyone knows where they stand and “fighting on the edge of terrain counts as being in the terrain†no matter what the configuration does it for me even though it strains logic at times.

I hope they do because I suspect this will become contentious when people suddenly find their units sucked into debilitating terrain.

Dave
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Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 680
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 03, 2019 3:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
This is the sort of thing that killed DBM.

Those that want a "lining the edge" concept want the best of both worlds that they choose later where they are when it suits them.

With straight edge units and wigley terrain this lining the edge can obviously never happened.

Ban the concept of lining the edge solves an issue that isn't really there .
Your edge is inside or outside get a grip.
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AlanCutner
Tribun


Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 706
Localisation: Scotland
MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 03, 2019 10:34 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I'd favour a simple ruling that a unit on the edge of terrain is always considered to be in that terrain. Therefore anyone fighting it is in terrain, and they count as inside terrain for all purposes such as impetuous/mounted charges.
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Mark G Fry
Signifer


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 319
Localisation: Bristol, UK
MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 11, 2019 3:25 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Having units 'sucked' or dragged into debilitating terrain is a nightmare and i think there needs to be an ability for the units fighting to declare their intention.
I attack a unit in terrain - all be it with an edge up against the edge of that terrain - then I need to know with certainty that the unit is in that terrain or not.
If the ambiguity is left in the favour of the defender with the unit in the terrain it make a lottery of things.

A classic example might be a unit of Heavy Foot in a Village with the front edge of their base up against the edge of the rectangular terrain template.
I choose to charge the HF with a unit of LF - if he is in the terrain I can do so and he will fight at a disadvantage.
If he is out of the terrain - I cannot charge him.

I'd argue that if a unit is in terrain - a side step cannot take it out of that terrain - as the far edge of the side-step must still be "in the terrain" - it is geometry.

If the +1UD move (that must follow the side-step) takes the unit fully out of the terrain - then that seems to be clear. However, if the 1 UD move still keeps the unit running parallel to the terrain edge - without it's front edge being outside the terrain fully - then it is still technically in that terrain.

Or am I smoking something Shocked
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mar Fév 19, 2019 4:55 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
If a 40mm deep base has it front edge along and in the terrain feature then if it moves 1 UD even with a slide a part of the base will still be touching the terrain and must be inside it still after movement.
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Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 680
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 25, 2020 6:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Worth a reread for considering logic or not.
And it's implications.
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