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Evade direction
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Ven Jan 11, 2019 5:16 pm    Sujet du message: Evade direction Répondre en citant
First query from a game yesterday.

1. A light cavalry unit is ZOC'd on its front and side edges by an enemy at an angle to it. If the LC want to exit the ZOC do they go to their rear, to their flank or do they have a choice.
2. Does it make any difference if there is another enemy unit pinning it to the rear? Its accepted the one to the front/side is 'most threatening unit'.
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 12, 2019 1:41 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Some confusion here. The topic is "Evade Direction" but the questions seem to be about "Exiting a ZoC."

So to answer the questions:

See Page 34 Exiting a ZoC.

1) They can't choose. If the ZoCing unit is on the LC's flank* then the LC must make a quarter turn and move directly to its new front - away from the ZoCing unit. If it's to the LC's front, then a half turn (etc).

2) Only if the LC are obliged to exit the ZoC to their own rear in which case they won't be permitted to exit the ZoC. This is because they would not be "capable of evading."


* I take this to mean it's in a position to flank charge the LC

Dave
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 12, 2019 9:04 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Sorry for confusion. Should be 'exiting ZOC' not evading.

So if a unit is ZOC'd to front and flank the flank ZOC takes precedence. Thats how we played it anyway.
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ethan
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 12, 2019 1:57 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
AlanCutner a écrit:
Sorry for confusion. Should be 'exiting ZOC' not evading.

So if a unit is ZOC'd to front and flank the flank ZOC takes precedence. Thats how we played it anyway.


This is directly addressed. See P. 34.

Exiting a ZOC ...only take account of the most threatening enemy. (emphasis original)

Most threatening is defined on the same page. The unit to the front is the one that counts basically.
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 12, 2019 2:20 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ethan There is no issue about the most threatening enemy. But in this case the most threatening enemy has a ZOC on both the front and side edges. Hopefully the picture helps.

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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 12, 2019 5:33 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
This diagram shows that blue may only attack the front of red, which must therefore exit the ZoC by moving to it’s rear.

However, if the most threatening enemy can attack both front and flank, I believe that red may choose which way it will exit. 
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barnstormer
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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 13, 2019 7:08 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:




2) Only if the LC are obliged to exit the ZoC to their own rear in which case they won't be permitted to exit the ZoC. This is because they would not be "capable of evading."



Dave


Hiya, Why can't they Evade. If they were charged they turn to face the charge then evade
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 13, 2019 10:19 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I partly agree with Dave. His point is that where there is an enemy unit within 1UD in the direction of the potential evade, then evading is not possible. 


 However, where the most threatening unit is on the flank and there is a second enemy threatening the rear, evading is possible so the unit ignores the rear enemy and exits the ZoC by turning 90 degrees and then moving. 
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 13, 2019 10:19 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Exiting a ZOC is different to an evade in this situation.

1. In an evade the charging unit can decide whether it is charging the front or side edge of the target. That defines which direction the evade is in.
2. A unit exiting a ZOC goes to its rear if ZOC'd from the front, or to the side if ZOC'd from the opposite side. Here the most threatening enemy is ZOC'ing both front and side. Ramses suggests this leave the moving unit with a choice of direction.
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Zoltan
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MessagePosté le: Lun Jan 14, 2019 2:04 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
@Alan - it looks to me that in the diagram blue is not sufficiently behind red’s front edge to count as zocing from the flank. Is this a picture formatting issue? i.e. is your intention to show that blue’s zoc can hit both red’s front and side edges?
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Lun Jan 14, 2019 11:46 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
barnstormer a écrit:
daveallen a écrit:




2) Only if the LC are obliged to exit the ZoC to their own rear in which case they won't be permitted to exit the ZoC. This is because they would not be "capable of evading."



Dave


Hiya, Why can't they Evade. If they were charged they turn to face the charge then evade

Hi Barnstormer. I'm assuming the unit ZoCing it from the rear would block an evade to the rear as per page 38.

Dave
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Lun Jan 14, 2019 12:04 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
This diagram shows that blue may only attack the front of red, which must therefore exit the ZoC by moving to it’s rear.

However, if the most threatening enemy can attack both front and flank, I believe that red may choose which way it will exit. 

I disagree with this.

Yes, a unit "on its flank" may well be able to charge either the front or the flank of the unit [and possibly even not at all if it was itself ZoCed]. However, what is relevant for exiting a ZoC is whether the ZoCer is "to its front" or "on its flank" not whether or not it can charge.

I was using the ability of the ZoCer to charge the flank as a definition of "on its flank."

As usual, there is an exception - where the ZoCing unit is both behind the flank of and itself ZoCed by the unit it ZoCs then I think the exiting unit would get a choice of exit direction.
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AlanCutner
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MessagePosté le: Lun Jan 14, 2019 9:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
To avoid confusion, in the diagram the blue unit ZOC's both front and side of the red unit.
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Lun Jan 14, 2019 10:24 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
But is it on the flank of red?
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Ramses II
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MessagePosté le: Mar Jan 15, 2019 1:52 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In the diagram, I would say blue is not “on its flankâ€, because it is not able to contact the flank of red (ie it is still only threatening the front of the red).

If blue were advanced slightly forward to a position where it could be threaten the flank of red as well as the front, then we both agree that red has a choice of direction, though you described the reasoning better. 
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