Art De La Guerre

muz177 · Gladiateur Inscrit le: 21 Jan 2018 Messages: 43

The list nominates Sun Pin as a strategist (Chi'n in 351 -341 BC)
The list includes a Qin Option.

1. Do you need to use the Qin option in order to select the strategist?
2. Are the options similar to Allies (ie can only utilise one option)?

madaxeman · Post� le: Mer Nov 28, 2018 9:01 am Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mer Nov 28, 2018 11:00 am Sujet du message:

Warring states chineses can't have allied, even a warring states internal allied. So you can't mix different options and the strategist must be included in a ch'i optioned army.
You probably will tell me there is no troop with ch'i option. This means you have to choose your troops in the main list.
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MKennedy · Post� le: Mer Nov 28, 2018 1:44 pm Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mer Nov 28, 2018 4:54 pm Sujet du message:

i was surprised to see unknowed ch'i dinasty in ruleset....
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

Davros · Post� le: Mer Nov 28, 2018 5:21 pm Sujet du message:

Sorry, but I disagree. For the period in which you can select Sun Bin as a strategist, he fought for the kingdom of Qi, not Qin. (He had a previous military career in Wei, where it would not be accurate to classify him as a strategist, especially the period in which he lived in a pigsty pretending to be mad.)

Qi does not get any special troops in this list, unlike most of its rival states. Qi (long after Sun Bin's death) was the last of the seven major warring states to be swallowed up in 221BCE by Qin, whose King Zheng then declared himself emperor (Qin Shi Huang Di).

So the Qin option would not allow you to have a strategist.

I think that part of the problem here is that all the Chinese lists use a confusing mixture of Wade-Giles and Pinyin transliteration schemes. List #80 mostly uses the rather archaic Wade-Giles, so you have options for: Yueh (Yue in Pinyin - not one of the seven major states, and most of which was conquered by Qi); Chao (Zhao), Yen (Yan) and Wei (Wei); Ch'u (Chu); Han (Han) and Qin (the list now switches to Pinyin here rather than referring to Ch'in).

I think the the various states' optional troop types are all plausible, though you could make the case that the main list's heavy chariots should probably be impetuous rather than impact, and that all states should have access to one or two light cavalry and elite and/or armoured guard units.

G