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Non standard conforming
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Korik
Archer


Inscrit le: 19 Juil 2018
Messages: 58
MessagePosté le: Dim Sep 02, 2018 11:11 am    Sujet du message: Non standard conforming Répondre en citant
Three HI swordsmen in a group are facing six HI swordsmen, also in a group, and 2 UD away

With sufficient pips, the left hand of the three pack slides 1/2 UD left and advances to just out of contact
Centre unit advances straight ahead to line up with first unit but still out of contact
Right hand unit slides 1/2 UD right and advances to line up with the other two units

The six pack wants to as a charge as a group the outer pairs can contact and conform (assuming the inner unit of the pair overlaps more of the enemy base than the outer unit)

If the middle pair tries to charge their opponent they can't actually conform without bumping into the guys either side

Can they still charge into contact and count one as an overlap?
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Dim Sep 02, 2018 11:22 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Korik a écrit:
Three HI swordsmen in a group are facing six HI swordsmen, also in a group, and 2 UD away

With sufficient pips, the left hand of the three pack slides 1/2 UD left and advances to just out of contact
Centre unit advances straight ahead to line up with first unit but still out of contact
Right hand unit slides 1/2 UD right and advances to line up with the other two units

The six pack wants to as a charge as a group the outer pairs can contact and conform (assuming the inner unit of the pair overlaps more of the enemy base than the outer unit)

If the middle pair tries to charge their opponent they can't actually conform without bumping into the guys either side

Can they still charge into contact and count one as an overlap?


Yes. There is no geometry cheese in these rules. The charging block will also get the benefit of several overlaps (if I've read your description correctly, essentially of 2 units contacting one in the middle).

Your pip-expensively arranged 3 separate units will then conform properly in their next turn, but this won't affect the factors as the overlaps will already count.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1531
MessagePosté le: Dim Sep 02, 2018 5:06 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Yes the 6 charge just fine as madaxe pointed out.

What's more if you have slid exactly 1/2 UD the other side will then have a choice of how to conform potentially.

Also once you are with 1 UD the enemy will get free charges so if you are not careful they will have several options to pick the line up and conform.

Generally speaking any attempt by a small number of units to geometrically exploit the rules to deny a greater number from using there advantage will fail. It has been tried numerous times and the rules are pretty resistant to this.
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
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Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Dim Sep 02, 2018 6:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Yup, Agreed with both the above.

There are three AdlG rules at work here.

  1. When Conforming on opposing units (p52), the charging units are moved separately to conform with the closest unit on their front. What you describe could end up with chargers being split into three pairs, each facing a single enemy with a support.
  2. Where the units are Unable to conform (p54) on the front edge of an enemy unit, the enemy unit must conform as soon as it is able. This could equally result in the group of six remaining intact with the enemy units being moved to face the group with overlaps on one or both sides. Note, in this case, the initial melee is fought as though the conformation had occurred.
  3. When charging as a group, units in the group may continue their charge (p36) when others have made contact, so even if you placed your three units at different distances, they could still all be contacted.
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Korik
Archer


Inscrit le: 19 Juil 2018
Messages: 58
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 03, 2018 12:22 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Really appreciate the responses, thank you

I think the original intention wasn't to mess up the conforming but to ZOC lock six units with three

The practicality of the rules around conforming, as explained in your responses, looks good to me
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1531
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 03, 2018 2:21 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Korik a écrit:

I think the original intention wasn't to mess up the conforming but to ZOC lock six units with three


AS you can see, you can temporary ZOC them but its at a high price. Also for future remember once a unit is in melee (not support) it no longer has a ZOC.
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