Art De La Guerre

[daveallen]

Hi Maverick,

I don't have my rules with me at the moment so I can't give you the quote, but as Dickstick pointed out the extension into melee is specifically included in the Charge rule on page 36.

As you say, if the overlap/target was Light Cavalry (or if the LI was in rough or difficult terrain) the Pike wouldn't be able to slide and charge because they can't guarantee going 1 UD forward. However, LI in the open is a special case and providing their evade isn't blocked and there are no interfering ZoCs the Pike will advance at least 1 UD

Also, a unit can't slide and wheel in a charge so that's not an issue.

Dave
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Putting the ink into incompetence

[Dickstick]

Pages 31 and 36 as posted earlier.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Maverick2909]

I stand corrected on the extension! I wasn’t aware you could extend into contact but it is indeed outlined in the rules! 

I also read the section about sliding and it is worded to where the situation at hand could possibly allow them to slide first then charge, however my scenario still stands as to being a possible inconsistency around a slide and charge. A better example:

A
       X

A is facing up/North and X is facing sideways/west. They are exactly one UD apart. A is an HI and X is a troop type which can evade. A does a quarter turn to face right/east and then a slide of one UD to align directly facing X and one UD away. A declared a charge and X evades. A rolls a 1 and thus is denied 1 UD of movement thus not being able to move forward at all, however it slid. How should this be resolved?

[Dickstick]

Elephant in the room

Cannot slide and ...... in a charge.

.... = 1/4, 1/2 turns , extend or contact .

Your scenerio is why not wheel. ?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

To answer the related question regarding the adjusted movement, follow the charge process.

- The chargers must be able to contact using their movement (in your case they cannot as Dickstick says)
- The chargers declare their charge, the direction of movement and the intended targets
- The intended targets choose to evade (if able) and then make an adjusted move
- If all the targets evade and the chargers are not impetuous, the chargers may choose to make a 1UD move (2UD if mounted) or an adjusted charge move
- Otherwise the chargers move their normal move in the direction indicated

[Maverick2909]

[Ramses II]

If you check p36 Charge Movement, the text says

"At the beginning of a charge, it is also possible to wheel, slide (not both) or make a turn followed by an optional wheel."


Basically you can slide or wheel or turn, and then move in a straight line.

Using your last diagram, A could make a 1/4 turn followed by a wheel to contact X (distance permitting), but NOT a 1/4 turn followed by a slide.

[Maverick2909]

[Ramses II]

Well that is a novel interpretation that I have not heard before LoL
What they are trying to say is that you may only wheel after a turn, not after either a slide or after an initial wheel.

However, as long as it is now clear, that is good.
I am not sure it needs to have an FAQ

[Korik]

Sort of have to agree with Maverick

'...it is also possible to make one of:
1. a turn (1/4 or 1/2) followed by an optional wheel
2. a slide requiring at least 1UD of forward movement
3. a simple wheel
4. an extension into contact'
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Korik

[Ramses II]

That works as well Korik,
Extension is indeed permitted, see p 31, 2nd para and the sentence following the disputed one.

[Korik]

Just one more point...
If an extension into contact counts as a charge and the target of the charge evades, does the unit performing the extension roll for variable move distance?

You could possibly have heavy foot extending into contact, rolling down, reducing their movement to 1 UD, and so being prevented by this from executing the extension - I suppose it's the same as declaring a charge, rolling down, and not having enough adjusted movement to reach the original position of the charge target
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Korik

[Dickstick]

Your group already has units in contact.

You only roll if all enemy evades.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Korik]

Hi Dickstick

That's an interesting point. If there were no light infantry then the pike (in this case) could execute an extension and move into a support position as overlap, but the light infantry are there, so can the pike use a simple move into contact or must the LI be charged away?

The LI are providing overlap support but aren't, technically, in melee (they retain their ZOC, or would if they had one) as they are not engaged by an enemy unit's front edge and can move away from their overlap position voluntarily, and so any move into contact would seem to fall within the definition of a charge on page 36

You comment that 'the group already has units in contact' also raises the question as to whether a 'group' can actually engage in combat other than as a collection of units which, individually, are in contact with enemy units - defining a group as a whole as being 'in combat' could mean that units within that group which aren't in contact would be locked in place

I think groups are there purely for movement and command purposes - once you cross swords it's each unit for itself
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Korik

[Dickstick]

Put it another way.
What does the front of a group that expands (extends ) do and where do the rear units end up?
P30 + p31.
Units are added to the front rank.
It's not stated but the front rank don't actually move even if they count as moving.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo