Art De La Guerre

[Mike Bennett]

sorry I disagree, although I accept maybe my English is at fault. It does not say ends up which would give the same result as the French. it says as a result of ie if it were not for that move it would not be in difficult terrain.

this word clearly consider the start point as well as the end point.

[Ramses II]

[Mike Bennett]

anyway I drop this now if we have no consensus on what it actually says and will have to accept decisions by tournament umpires and I hope these interpret as the French version for international consistency.

[Ramses II]

Sorry Mike, I am struggling to understand your problem.
It seems you had a situation where your unit was just outside some terrain, an enemy unit moved through the terrain, it’s front edge leaving to get into contact with yours. Yes?
 (Note, unless the enemy unit completely cleared the terrain, then according to the definitions on p57 Terrain Modifiers the unit should suffer some negative modifier.)

 Then there was the debate about the difference between the French and English text, and the amendment which supposedly brought the english text in line with the French.  

So could you detail where the discrepancy has crept in

[Black Prince]

The Hastings example is interesting the Impetuous Normans are force to charge into a melee in a disadvantaged situation because they do not receive a negative modifier the defender gets a positive modifier. If I have read this correctly it seems a bit cheesy.

[Mike Bennett]

The enemy was in difficult terrain at the start of their move
I was just outside but close to the difficult terrain, such that if he charged me the back of his base was in the difficult and he had a minus 1

In English we agreed that he had to charge. It was not the charge move that would result in him being in terrain that gave a disadvantage, since he was already in it and so even if he did not charge he was in terrain that gave him such a disadvantage already

He had French rules, where the wording is different and so we agreed it took precedence and so he did not charge, avoiding my cunningly laid trap

[Ramses II]

Ok, and thanks Mike for your patience. As I said earlier, perhaps better wording would be

[madaxeman]

[Zoltan]

[Hazelbark]

[Hazelbark]

[daveallen]

[Mike Bennett]

I think a better wording might be

“if after the charge move the unit ends up in combat in terrain that would inflict a combat penalty on it”.

[Black Prince]

I guess not been an impetuous knight I struggle to understand why not charging into a field to get at enemy is a perfectly sensible but if the enemy is on a hill and is at advantage then that is no problem "lets have em". It is different if the commander feels he has no choice an orders a charge uphill.

"History is cheesy" - is that the justification for Barkerese?

[Ramses II]

Two perspectives here.

On foot, a hill is visually quite slight, but the incline is sufficient to leave you breathless if you run the last 200 paces or so in full kit, which will put you at at disadvantage against someone who is calmly waiting upslope. 


On a slightly steeper section against an enemy with a man high shield, a horseman / “medium knight” may struggle to use his superior height to advantage

Either way, it’s a game, and them’s the rules -