Art De La Guerre

[Mike Bennett]

a mixed group heavy foot and elephant charge. the enemy evade and charger rolls minus. the rules say a mounted unit must move a minimum if 2ud. they make no reference to groups. How far does the elephant move?

1ud as part of a single group with heavy foot which moves together at its slowest speed and so all slow down
2ud as it is mounted and that is the minimum move, ending up ahead of its heavy foot friends, and so split from the group


What about if it rolls normal charge distance. Can the entire group choose to move together making make the minimum foot 1ud move and ignore that the elephant is mounted and must move 2ud?

[Zoltan]

In another post (see below) on evade moves and contractions, a conclusion was reached where a group threw a single die to determine its evade distance (short, long or normal) but then the circumstances were such that different units in the group could move different distances. Thus, the group would break up during the evade move.

To be consistent with that, I would say that if you elect to charge the elephant and HI as a group, you throw one die and each troop type obeys the restrictions that apply to it. If you throw down the HI will go 2-1=1UD; the elephant will go 3-1=2UD. This may well break up your group.

If you throw normal or up, you can maintain your group as both HI and elephant can move 2UD/3UD and respect all constraints.

Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chances.

[Mike Bennett]

there are precedents for a group compelled to break up in a charge

impetuous must move full
zocs on some
meeting different enemy groups that are not aligned
lights stopping to avoid heavies after an original target evades
etc

[Kal5056]

Groups that move at different rates must roll sepeeate variable move dice. Same with evaders 

Gino

[daveallen]

[Ramses II]

I need to check on this, but I believe the principles are as follows. 

A group must stay together unless continuing a charge - effectively the cases cited. Nothing is mentioned about breaking the group up because the elephants are mounted. 

So if the group contains HI it moves at the speed of that unit type, and if the group rolls down it only goes 1UD - including the elephant. Throwing high is fine as others have said, as both types can move 3UD. 

Basically elephants are a kind of hybrid case of ‘mounted’ animal. They can move quite fast, but that is more a ‘quick walk’ than a ‘slow gallop’.

[Mike Bennett]

a group of hi and impetuous hi or mi could break up in a charge if all targets evade and the non impetuous choose to move the 1UD minimun

[Hazelbark]

I don't feel particularly strongly about this. But I think it is clear.
p 40. #7 1st paragraph
rolled to adjust its movement distance (see point 5)

point 5 says do not have same speed, then different roll for each sub group.


Now if an umpire ruled differently I would not care. But I think this is clear. Different speed sub groups. roll separately.

HEH

where H are heavy elephant in in center that is 3 subgroups.

[Mike Bennett]

Hi

I am not massively botherred which way it is ruled. But would simply like to understand and for it to be consistent not. Ref point 5, as I read it that applies to the evader, but not to the charger, somewhat inconsistently I agree.

[Hazelbark]

I agree #5 applies to evader. But under #7 it says #5 is operational for charger too. It says so very explicitly.

[daveallen]

Hmm, I'd completely missed this rule. I'd taken "(see point 5)" to be a reference to just the distance adjustments.

So if a group of impetuous and non-impetuous units of the same type declare a group charge and the enemy evades then the entire charging group must go the full distance? Because there's no reason to break up the group, such as an intervening ZoC. 

Also, in the case if the elephant and HI group, or Cav and LH, might this increase the chances of catching the evaders?

Dave
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Putting the ink into incompetence

[Mike Bennett]

Wow I had not fully thought that through, and never seen it played that way in UK. With a couple of sub groups rolling it does indeed increase the chance that at least part of the group rolls plus and catches the Evader

[Hazelbark]

you only get sub groups based on speed.

[daveallen]

I'm not convinced that:

[lionelrus]

Well, french point of view?
At first , page 27 , (freely translated in English)" a group of unit move at slowest unit speed"

Page 40, chapter about evading (long chapter, isn't it?) bullet7 charging move "D6 is thrown to adjust moving distance only if all targets evade".

So , your group HI/Elephants (curious...) charging have a base distance move of 2 UD and all the group have the same adjusted distance move.
And , off course, it's not the same rule for evading troop. For them, the difference between troops with différent moving is expressly specified in chapter 5 page 39.

The only way to gain different charging move distance is declaring a charge unit by unit, or subgroup by subgroup, but it's not working if all ennemy group evade at first charge.
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