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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1530
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Posté le: Lun Avr 09, 2018 10:18 pm Sujet du message: Disengage and conforming |
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After one unit disengages. May the unit formerly in support conform for free in that same turn? p 55 implies it might.
XA
_B
Where X is fighting A with B supporting A. A disengages. Leaving:
X___A
_B
Can B now immediately conform in for free.
The FAQ does not seem to address this as the last bullet of conforming leaves p55 intact. The issue seems to be to many, is the conforming only permitted as the situation stands at the beginning of the turn. Or can circumstances like the disengage take effect in mid turn. |
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Commodore
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012 Messages: 1195
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Avr 10, 2018 8:26 am Sujet du message: |
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A conformation can occurs after a break off/ disengage move ( ref p 55 first para : conformation after melee, 1st line).
So unit A can disengage and then unit B can conform for free ( or has to if impetuous).
As a conformation, it is not a charge and there is no evade move from X _________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864 |
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gregfilip
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Fév 2017 Messages: 109
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Posté le: Mar Avr 10, 2018 1:03 pm Sujet du message: |
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Page 55 second para says ..the enemy unit that is contacted CAN evade if allowed. |
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Commodore
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012 Messages: 1195
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Avr 10, 2018 2:49 pm Sujet du message: |
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gregfilip a écrit: | Page 55 second para says ..the enemy unit that is contacted CAN evade if allowed. |
correct, it may evade, my mistake _________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864 |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 6:00 am Sujet du message: |
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A disengaging unit must move its full move minus 1 UD to its rear. So unless A is HI (full move of 2UD minus 1UD equals a disengage move of 1UD) surely a disengage move will result in B no longer being in any contact with A? B has to be in contact with A in order to conform for free.
Of course if A is indeed HI, then B will still be in corner to corner contact with A (after A's disengage of 1UD), so B would be entitled to continue the melee by conforming for free. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 6:22 am Sujet du message: |
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Hi Zoltan
I think you misinterpreted the op. A & B are on the same side Â
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 8:44 am Sujet du message: |
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daveallen a écrit: | Hi Zoltan
I think you misinterpreted the op. A & B are on the same side Â
Dave |
My bad, so I got the letters wrong. But aren’t my points still valid? Unless it is HI, X’s disengage will take it more than 1UD from A and B. If contact is broken with A and B there is no longer a melee. Free conformation (as distinct from charging) only occurs where there is continuation of an existing melee. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 10:13 am Sujet du message: |
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It's A that disengages, so no. _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 12:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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This is a question about the timing of events in the game and the consequences of that timing.
It is the start of the turn of player AB. If B had destroyed an enemy in the previous melee and A was not there, then B would permitted to choose to 'conform after a melee' on X for free. So far so good.
The question is whether, if A disengages, is B still allowed to 'conform' for free? Or, since the movement phase has started, whether the player has to pay 1CP to move B into position?
(Note, this would not constitute a 'charge' since B starts in contact, nor is it free as X is not in the ZoC of B).
I agree with Zoltan that to 'continue a melee' the unit has to 'conform after the melee' - effectively without interruption, so while A may disengage from X allowing B to move across, that does not continue the melee, is therefore not a 'conformation', and thus not free. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 12:10 pm Sujet du message: |
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See Commodore's reply above. Also, first line of paragraph page 55:
"After a rout or disengage move..."
So yes, B can conform. At no cost.Â
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 2:01 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hmm, well that changes my perception of the FAQ on the Timing of Conformation slightly.
I thought 'Conformation' took place between phases, considering the previous three bullets in the FAQ ('just after movement', 'just after melee', 'just after pursuit') and the title of this paragraph "Conforming after melee" which takes place in the following movement phase.
What we are effectively saying is that "Conforming after a Melee" can happen at any point during the movement phase, not just at the start!
This seems to go against the intention of the FAQ, but let's leave it at that for now. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 6:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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I think you were reading the FAQ wrongly.Â
Page 13 of FAQ
Timing of conformation, 4th bp says:
"In the movement phase of the player's turn..."
Nothing about "at the beginning of."
It also says:
"This conformation replaces the charge..."
Which implies that like a charge it can happen whenever the player wants.Â
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 6:44 pm Sujet du message: |
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Like I said, I was reading the 4th bullet in the context of the other three bullets, and the title of the paragraph to which that bullet referred.
But hey, as long as we can all agree to play this way then that’s fine.
I’m just a bit puzzled, that’s all. Let’s leave it for now, ok! |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 9:38 pm Sujet du message: |
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OK I get it now. The phasing player wants to employ a wheeze of swapping out it's fighting unit (presumably because it is damaged or an inferior fighter) and replacing it with the supporting unit. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Ven Avr 13, 2018 3:09 pm Sujet du message: |
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Yes, but more importantly than the cunning wheeze, it illustrates that you can choose when/if this kind of conform happens in the movement phase. _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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