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ALDG and pre WW2 beginner, 147 - Anglo-Saxons
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MadCat
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2017
Messages: 11
MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 13, 2017 4:54 pm    Sujet du message: ALDG and pre WW2 beginner, 147 - Anglo-Saxons Répondre en citant
Hi,

From the list I came to this:

Strategist 10
6 Heavy spearmen 48
2 Light javelin 8

Competent 3
6 Heavy spearmen 48
2 Light javelin 8

Ordinary, included -3
4 Heavy cavalry 44
2 Medium cavalry 14
3 Heavy spearmen mediocre 18

Which is 198 points.

Is this ok?

Any tips?

Is there any way to spend the final 2 points?

Thanks.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mer Déc 13, 2017 7:52 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So the strategist is completely under utilized in that command.
A super quick option below. The idea is the strategist can most his foot and mounted. I would use the Hirdsmen dismounted as the HC don't really want to fight historical opponents from horseback.
The two foot commands are plodding forward.
at 18 HI widths that is a big frontage and the corps opposite where the enemy advances holds. The other corps wheel into support.

Strategist 10
4 Heavy spearmen 32
2 Heavy spearmen elite 24
1 Heavy spearmen Mediocre 6
2 Light javelin 8
2 Medium cavalry 14

Ordinary, included -3
5 Heavy spearmen 40
1 Heavy spearmen elite 12
1 Light bow 4

Ordinary, included -3
5 Heavy spearmen 40
1 Heavy spearmen elite 12
1 Light bow 4
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MadCat
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2017
Messages: 11
MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 14, 2017 11:25 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Some questions:

The list has 4 + 5 +5 heavy spearmen, the list only allows for 12.

Why don't the HC want to fight?

Why don't the elite heavy spearmen have armour?
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Maverick2909
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 01 Juil 2017
Messages: 103
Localisation: Oklahoma City, OK
MessagePosté le: Jeu Déc 14, 2017 4:43 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I can't speak as to why he included 14 units of Heavy Spear, but it does look like points wise he did account for the armor on the elite spear but forgot to include in description.

As to the Heavy Cav, well if you play historical opponents, or even in an open tournament setting there is a good chance you'll come up against medium/heavy Knights. These guys will crush your heavy cavalry. Also, heavy cavalry is bad against most other heavy foot as well as medium foot in terrain. Basically what I'm getting at is heavy cavalry probably aren't worth their points unless you can upgrade to bow.

I don't have the list in front of me, but I would structure something like this:

6x Heavy Infantry (your choice of which are elite or regular, no mediocre)
2-3x light troops

6x Heavy Infantry (your choice of which are elite or regular, no mediocre)
2-3x light troops

4-6x medium troops, not sure if your list has any, but this is almost a must as you'll face opponents with rough going and will want a contingent of minimum 4 units to deal with it, I prefer regular bowmen or longbowmen for this role. Lastly you'll want to throw whatever mounted minimums are required into this command. I don't really have them do a whole lot other than guard baggage or go after opponents baggage.

This is just based on how I play and have seen what works. As a rule of thumb I never take Cav that can't shoot, just not worth it. Another rule of thumb is I never take mediocre unless it's pike, also generally not worth it. Third rule of thumb, max any levy you can take, always worth it.
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Longtooth
Signifer


Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
Messages: 349
Localisation: Oxford
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 8:56 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
As Maveric points out, the major disadvantage with the Anglo-Saxon list is the lack of medium foot. If you are playing in period, then most of your opponents will have these in abundance.

On the basis that you only have one troop type (spear) I would suggest that quantity is more important that quality. If you can fill the table with sharp pointy sticks, then your opponent will have no choice but to meet you head-on.

Be wary of impetuous medium foot, as they will destroy your heavy spear.

This is the list I would use:

Command A
- Competent commander
- 2 x light foot, bow
- 2 x heavy foot, spear, inferior
- 6 x heavy foot, spear

Command B
- Competent commander
- 2 x light foot, javelin
- 2 x heavy foot, spear, inferior
- 6 x heavy foot, spear

Command C (Welsh Ally)
- Competent commander
- 1 x medium cavalry
- 2 x light foot, javelin
- 6 x medium foot, sword

You may wish to consider using a Viking ally if your opponent has access to impetuous medium foot.

Jesse
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Maverick2909
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 01 Juil 2017
Messages: 103
Localisation: Oklahoma City, OK
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 1:56 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Good call on the welsh ally! The mediocre-ordinary-elite debate really comes down to personal preference. The only disadvantage I see to the list you provided is its 8 units wide per command so could be more difficult to maneuver, but hopefully he won't have to do that if he can make a solid line. Overall that's a solid Anglo Saxon list.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 2:36 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MadCat a écrit:
Some questions:

The list has 4 + 5 +5 heavy spearmen, the list only allows for 12.

Why don't the HC want to fight?

Why don't the elite heavy spearmen have armour?


1) Opps. was in a rush
2) HC fight at 0 vs enemy heavy foot. They are very expensive troops to have as a flanking force. The armor elite dudes in the line are quite good.
3) Costed them but didn't write.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 2:52 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Maverick2909 a écrit:

This is just based on how I play and have seen what works. As a rule of thumb I never take Cav that can't shoot, just not worth it. Another rule of thumb is I never take mediocre unless it's pike, also generally not worth it. Third rule of thumb, max any levy you can take, always worth it.


CV without shooting has a valuable role. But it is an acquired skill. They are very dangerous to enemy Medium foot. Excellent skirmishers. And with the right employment are good at envelopment but that is a number of games in to get right.

Mediocre Heavy Spear can work. But I would buy 1-2 per Corps and use them as a reserve in the line to plug gaps. Yes they are likely losers, but with 4 cohesion hits they die slowly while you can win elsewhere.

Levy are cheap, but they are vulnerable. If you have 4 guarding your camp that is fine versus a stray LC. But you risk having them die with the camp and the situation is far worse. At a certain level of units say 25, I rather have 1 more Mediocre spear than more 2 levy for my last 6 point.
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MadCat
Javelinier


Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2017
Messages: 11
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 4:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I'm just reading the rules, but can't also the cavalry dismount as Medium Infantry, very expensive medium, but 4 bases would have armour and be elite isn't the flexibility be valuable also?
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Longtooth
Signifer


Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
Messages: 349
Localisation: Oxford
MessagePosté le: Ven Déc 15, 2017 7:38 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I believe that you can only dismount if your opponent deploys an elephant, fortifications, or stakes.

With regard to the inferior heavy spear, they are not intended for front line use. The idea is to pin or ZOC the enemy using regular heavy spear, then use the inferior units to wiggle round the flank.

Jesse
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Luddite
Archer


Inscrit le: 15 Nov 2017
Messages: 52
MessagePosté le: Mar Déc 19, 2017 7:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In general i prefer mixed commands rather than a "cavalry command". My limited experience of LADG so far has been that commands that are "mini armies" with the ability to use various troops depending on whats in front of them are preferable.

I could be wrong though.

Great to see the Anglo-Saxons getting some table time though!
Very Happy
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