Art De La Guerre

[daveallen]

Just need a tidy up here.

The Rules for this are:

Page 38 Troops that must evade

[Viking709]

Good catch
The original question about impetuous cavalry pursuing into elephants after catching LI in the open is The Impetuous Cav STOP after destroying LI in the open and don't pursue. So the elephant continues as a support to both combats and can stay put or charge the Impetuous cav in his bound

[MKennedy]

Impetuous cavalry pursuit into elephants were already covered here:

http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6291

I see two questions here.

1st: The one that Dave has brought up about "what does "moved away" mean?" and

2nd: Once a LI is contacted in the open by heavy troops, does the heavy troop stop without conforming (per page 38 ) or does the unit conform then destroy the LI (per page 52, 2nd paragraph as amended 2017)?

As to question 1; The LI might not be blocked. And, per page 52 3rd paragraph the LI would be displaced 1 UD back. If unable to, then the LI would be destroyed.

For question 2; I think page 38 got overlooked and that page 52, 2nd paragraph as amended 2017, takes president. Meaning the heavy unit will conform then destroy the LI.

[Ramses II]

Good catch Dave. It would seem that P38 needs to be amended to bring it into line with the amended p52, to say that the heavier unit conforms as if for melee before the LI unit is destroyed.

There does not appear to be any guidance on what ‘moved away’ means except to apply simple logic and geometry?!
P52 says “it is immediately moved back one UD to break contact. If this move is blocked by another enemy, the light unit is destroyed”. So I suggest the following interpretation

• If the light unit is contacted edge to edge, or enemy edge to light unit corner, the light unit unit must move 1UD in a line perpendicular to the enemy unit edge.
  
• If the light unit is contacted by the corner of an enemy unit, it must move 1UD back to somewhere on the 90degree arc based on that corner.

Note, the most common kind of situation will be where the LI must be moved following a melee in which the LI was supporting a unit that got destroyed. In this case it will be a corner contact, so the LI unit will be placed somewhere on the arc to one side.

To the other question Dave, it seems pretty clear that an enemy unit blocking the move causes the destruction of the LI unit, lateral moves are not permitted.
Does this sounds a little harsh, even though corner contacts will allow the LI to scatter, potentially giving the LI some chance to avoid being blocked?

[fdunadan]

in the French version, "le LI est reculé d'une UD" so LI goes back 1 UD.
There is no exception, even if the contact is only by a corner (the LI was apporting support to a unit tha has been destroyed), the LI in open terrain and in contact with a heavy troop must go back 1 UD, directly on his rear.
So no turn, no arc...
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[Ramses II]

Ah, so this is a case of “lost in translation”

Other translations are ‘recoil’ and ‘retreat’, so as fdunadan says, it seems the LI should be moved straight back to their rear.

Many thanks for the French words, most helpful.

[plefebvre]

[AlanCutner]

[Ramses II]

Patrick, thanks for the correction, but in the interests of clarity, could you explain further. 

• Is the direction that the LI moves determined by the way the original enemy unit contacts the LI? 
  
• What do you mean by “to move in the proper and more direct way which prevents the Li to contact new enemy”?
  The English version of the rules suggest the LI must move 1UD, and if blocked by another enemy unit, they are destroyed. Is there something different in the original French text here?

[Luddite]

And the English text in my view is clear in that the LI "moves back 1UD". I guess its clear based on my assumption that this means "directly to its own rear"?


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[AlanCutner]

Except it doesn't say 'move back' but 'move away'

[plefebvre]

[Luddite]

Really?

Mine says the following:

"Following a rout or disengagement from melee, if a light infantry unit would remain in contact (even by a single corner) with an enemy which could destroy it automatically (for example heavy infantry), it is immediately moved back one UD to break contact. If this move is blocked by another enemy, the light infantry is destroyed."
- p52, right column, second paragraph, 2014 Edition.

Err..hang on. What's this "amended 2017" thing about?
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[AlanCutner]

Dave Allen has quoted the amendment at the top of the thread. It has the words 'moved away'.

[Luddite]

Agreed, but what does "as amended 2017" refer to? Is there an amended rule edition out that's different to the 2014 version?
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