Art De La Guerre

Garry Grant · Javelinier Inscrit le: 12 F�v 2017 Messages: 19

Hello. Have been playing ADLG for a while now but only joined the Forum today. I find the Forum very handy for ideas and clarity on the Rules.

Hoping I can obtain some guidance on a troublesome issue.

Had a hard fought Pyrrhic versus Camillan Roman game today - case of MAD with both armies breaking! Pyrrhus and one of his generals died.

We had a 'discussion' we were unable to resolve. Case in point relates to p20 - the line for Heavy Cavalry states:

Heavy Cavalry...........Same as Medium cavalry + armour. The note clarifies that the protection value of .......heavy cavalry already takes into account their armour ....abilities.

My opponent and I disagreed as to whether this ability applies to both shooting and hand to hand melee.

Most grateful if we can clear this up. We are taken with ADLG which provides a good game with a level of subtlety that surprises us each game.

Thanks

Garry

madaxeman · Post� le: Dim F�v 12, 2017 9:25 am Sujet du message:

The key thing here is that the "Protection" factor is only used in Shooting.

For HC, their Protection factor (unusually) states that it includes the benefit of Armour - they don't get an additional +1 if they lose.

Other "Armiured" troops - say, Medium Swordsmen with Armour - DO get a +1 if they lose a shooting dice-off

In Combat, you use the troops combat factors vs each other, plus any extras such as Armour. So, In combat, HC get a +1 if they lose against unarmoured troops. The "protection" factor isn't used at all.

(This is a common one when you start playing!)
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Garry Grant · Javelinier Inscrit le: 12 F�v 2017 Messages: 19

Madaxeman

Thanks for that.

Understand protection applies against shooting.

The issue arose with the HC after hand to hand combat. The HC lost against Roman HI, was I entitled to apply a 'moderation' in respect of the HC's 'armour'?

Just to be absolutely sure. Does your comment - "In combat, HC get a +1 if they lose against unarmoured troops" - mean the +1 armour 'save' would not apply in combat against HI because they are similarly armoured?.

Garry

Wagmestre · Post� le: Dim F�v 12, 2017 2:34 pm Sujet du message:

Yes, Hc is Mc with armour.
(and Hi is NOT Mi with armour...)

I have not my rulebook yet, but think it's clearly explained in the "troops types" part.

madaxeman · Post� le: Dim F�v 12, 2017 3:34 pm Sujet du message:

As that chap said Cool

"protection" is only for shooting - as on P16 - 'the protection bonus for knights on foot and mounted units is already included in the unit characteristics table"

HC fights as MC + armour.

HI is HI - they can sometimes have armour, but do not always have it.

Triumverate Roman Legionaries are "Heavy Swordsmen, Armour, Impact" They have Armour, and so HC losing to them would not be able to add +1 as they both have Armour

Patrician Roman Decadent Legionaries are just "Heavy Swordsmen". They don't have armour, so HC losing to them would add +1 to their overall score, as the Decadent Legions don't have armour
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daveallen · Post� le: Dim F�v 12, 2017 3:46 pm Sujet du message:

This is one of the niggles I have with the rules -

The terms Heavy and Medium are used to describe different properties of troops:

formation

armour status

And if that wasn't confusing enough, Light is used as a generic description for both foot and mounted skirmishers, but not for chariots where it's used with Heavy to distinguish between unarmoured cavalry and armoured knights.

The whole thing needs an overhaul imo. Rolling Eyes

Dave
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Garry Grant · Javelinier Inscrit le: 12 F�v 2017 Messages: 19

Many thanks for the comments - hard for my tired grey cells but I think I get it now!

Onwards and upwards, hoping we can try Pontic versus Marian Roman next.

Garry

Snowcat · Vétéran Inscrit le: 07 Jan 2017 Messages: 162

Is the ambiguity/consistency issue an error in translation to English from French, or is it there in French as well?

Cheers
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fdunadan · Tribun Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 978

it is also in French with "cavalerie moyenne" / "cavalerie lourde" (with armor)
and "infanterie moyenne"( MI) /"infanterie lourde (HI)

and same for knights...
you've got to remember that medium/heavy is for the protection in mounted and for the dispersion for foot troops.

one trick is to call the unit "cavalerie" when unarmored and "cavalerie lourde" when armored
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lionelrus · Post� le: Mar F�v 14, 2017 10:24 am Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mar F�v 14, 2017 10:27 am Sujet du message:

daveallen · Post� le: Mar F�v 14, 2017 10:12 pm Sujet du message:

Commodore · Post� le: Mer F�v 15, 2017 9:59 am Sujet du message:

lionelrus · Post� le: Mer F�v 15, 2017 11:27 am Sujet du message:

Perfidious Albion, isn't it?
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