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Huns - Elite, Elite, Elite?
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Snowcat
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 07 Jan 2017
Messages: 162
MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 3:14 am    Sujet du message: Huns - Elite, Elite, Elite? Répondre en citant
Came across these Hunnic lists on madaxeman's site (below). Are these for real? Almost everything is elite. Who are all these elite troops? Who on earth are the elite heavy swordsmen? Now I'm still waiting for my rulebook to arrive (so I haven't seen the official Hunnic army list), but given that the Avars (who were essentially a successor Hun army with better organisation, armour and weaponry) only get 0-4 elites in their entire list, I'm a tad perplexed at seeing these following combinations for the Huns:

200 points
Strategist
4 Heavy swordsmen impetuous Elite
2 Light infantry bow ------
2 Heavy cavalry impetuous ------
==
Ordinary
1 Heavy cavalry bow Elite
3 Medium cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow ------
==
Ordinary
1 Heavy cavalry bow Elite
3 Medium cavalry bow Elite
------- ----
1 Light cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow ------


Hunnic
Strategist
4 Heavy swordsmen impetuous Elite
2 Light infantry bow ------
4 Heavy cavalry impetuous ------
==
Ordinary
1 Heavy cavalry bow Elite
2 Medium cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow Elite
==
Ordinary
1 Heavy cavalry bow Elite
2 Medium cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow Elite
1 Light cavalry bow Elite

200 Points
Andy's List played at Roll Call

Corps 1: Competent

6 Medium Cavalry Bow Elite
1 Light Cavalry Bow Elite


Corps 2: Competent

6 Medium Cavalry Bow Elite
1 Light Cavalry Bow Average


Corps 3: Competent

2 Medium Cavalry Bow Elite
4 Light Cavalry Bow Elite
2 Light Cavalry Bow Average

Did the author who constructed the AdG Hunnic list have a bit of a soft spot for Attila and his lads? Wink

Cheers
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fdunadan
Tribun


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Messages: 978
MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 8:59 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Heavy elite swordsmen are Frank warriors ( Clovis ancestors) renown for their ferocity and general badassery.
Heavy cavalry elite is the nobles Hunnics (0-2) and the Medium and Light Cavalry are the Hunnic warriors (8-24) who can be average or elite (no limit)

The Avars got 4-16 Heavy Cavalry Bow and 0-6 Medium or Light Cavalry. So their are better equiped (Armor more common)

The "elite" give a +1 bonus on dice if firing, receving a fire or in melee if you roll 1, 2 or 3.
the "armor" give a +1 bonus if receving a fire or losing a melee.

so "elite" is less useful than "armor" if you want to sustain a fire exchange during some times.

And as for command, the Avars are +4 maximum versus +3 for the Hunnics, so Avars are beter organized...
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Snowcat
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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 9:41 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Frankish warriors - subject levies. Used to be Irr D MI in a certain previous WRG system, and are usually raw/levy/inferior in others when appearing as subject levies. Grading them Elite seems rather kind.

So all Hun cav can be elite. Do the Xiongnu get the same deal? Any other steppe nomads?

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge Hun fan, and I have a good collection of books (and an army) on them. This just appears a tad 'generous' IMO.

Cheers
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lionelrus
Magister Militum


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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 3:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Knowledge of history has progressed from old WRG lists...
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Soranon
Magister Militum


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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 3:55 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mongols can also be all elite.
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


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MessagePosté le: Sam Jan 14, 2017 11:49 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Snowcat a écrit:

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge Hun fan, and I have a good collection of books (and an army) on them. This just appears a tad 'generous' IMO.

Cheers


The issue is - as an earlier post said - that the Huns are largely restricted to Medium Cavalry.

MCav are best thought of as being "good LH" rather than "less armoured HC" in ADLG and even when Elite are fairly pants as combat troops compared to normal HC.

That sort of forces the army down a shoot-and-scoot play style, and being Elite makes they pretty good at it
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Snowcat
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 07 Jan 2017
Messages: 162
MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 1:55 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
lionelrus a écrit:
Knowledge of history has progressed from old WRG lists...


You don't say. So where is the 'knowledge of history' that more recently shows Attila's Frankish subject levies as being heavily armoured and of elite elan...?

(or is this another case of making the Franks work more historically within the AdG system say when compared with similar troops...?)

Like I said, I have a decent collection on the Huns, among other steppe tribes, and am pretty up-to-date on the subject (from what is actually known vs surmised).

Cheers


Dernière édition par Snowcat le Dim Jan 15, 2017 2:05 am; édité 2 fois
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Snowcat
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Inscrit le: 07 Jan 2017
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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 1:59 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
madaxeman a écrit:
Snowcat a écrit:

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge Hun fan, and I have a good collection of books (and an army) on them. This just appears a tad 'generous' IMO.

Cheers


The issue is - as an earlier post said - that the Huns are largely restricted to Medium Cavalry.

MCav are best thought of as being "good LH" rather than "less armoured HC" in ADLG and even when Elite are fairly pants as combat troops compared to normal HC.

That sort of forces the army down a shoot-and-scoot play style, and being Elite makes they pretty good at it


OK, now we're getting somewhere. So the Elite status is needed to make them work better historically within the AdG system. I'm fine with that.

So my main issue would now be with the subject troops. Are any of them mediocre?

Cheers
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Snowcat
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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 2:03 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Soranon a écrit:
Mongols can also be all elite.


I suspected that would be the case - glad to hear it.
Appropriate in light of the elite Huns and madaxeman's answer.

Thanks.
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Black Prince
Prétorien


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MessagePosté le: Dim Jan 15, 2017 5:32 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
How do you make shoot-and-scoot tactics work in the ADLG is it a simple case of move up to shooting range and evade if charged or is there more to it?
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