Art De La Guerre

madaxeman

Bottom of first column, it says the commander stays attached to the unit until the "end of the Game Turn or the end of the melee if it is engaged in melee."

As this has been translated currently, this currently suggests that a commander cannot ever leave a unit when that unit is in combat, even if he is not engaged in the melee himself.

I suspect that this should say "if he is engaged in melee", so this section would then refer to the general being in combat, not the unit.
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Icaunais · Légat Inscrit le: 21 Sep 2012 Messages: 649

From my point of view, you're right. A general in melee can't leave the unit until the melee is finished so sometimes several game turns.
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footslogger · Vétéran Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015 Messages: 166

I would take the "it" to refer to the general....

madaxeman · Post� le: Sam Ao� 13, 2016 10:21 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1544

this was covered somewhere and clarified the unit. Play as you normally would

footslogger · Vétéran Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015 Messages: 166

Stephen · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 4:24 am Sujet du message:

My 4th grade grammar teacher suggests that normal rules of English grammar do not result in the word it referring to the general but to the unit.

Is there a reason that I should question that which appears to be plain language or are we indulging in the antiquated practice of seeking interpretation to avoid the rule? A relic of WRG 5th Edition?

Wagmestre · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 8:38 am Sujet du message:

It's just an error of translation.
In french language, there's nothing similair as "it" (only he / she).

The rule is that the general can't leave the fighting unit until the end of the mêlée, if the general is engaged in the mêlée with this unit.

As a good guy, he is probably fighting in the first rank.... Twisted Evil

!

He is in a similair situation as an included general when his unit is fighting.

If he is just attached but not engaged, of course he can leave the fighting unit.

Stephen · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 11:06 am Sujet du message:

Il ou Elle, I bet there is a qui
Or quoi in the French version. At any rate, the English appears clear. Why do we need to clarify that which is clear? It ain't butter for a soufflé

plefebvre · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 30 D�c 2009 Messages: 1166

Wagmestre · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 2:36 pm Sujet du message:

Stephen · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 3:24 pm Sujet du message:

Having realized that the English edition of the rules is a mere translation and not an edition of the rules notwithstanding the title on the book, I decided that it might be helpful in my historical task of perverting the rules to compare the mere English translation to several other versions - a common and accepted academic practice. I found that the Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Hutu, and Classical Greek versions do not even use the word "commander". (Not sure about the Urdu knock off.) We need a FAQ to determine whether or not commanders are authorized by the real rules.😂

Some of my commanders are on a base with a standard bearer. As they are not "individually based", it appears that they can be attacked by enemy units in melee or by shooting. Do I need a FAQ to define "individually based"?

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Ao� 14, 2016 9:12 pm Sujet du message:

From a rules / translation perspective, the rules use two terms for the general,

Attached to a unit; (near or adjacent),
Engaged in melee; (fighting alongside the specified unit).

I agree with madaxeman that for clarity the wording should say that the general cannot leave the unit "if he is engaged in melee" or better, following what Wagmestre said; "if he and the unit are engaged in melee".

This is because the entire section is referring to the general being attached to a single unit, rather than being engaged (with the unit) in melee with an enemy.

madaxeman · Post� le: Lun Ao� 15, 2016 9:35 am Sujet du message:

fdunadan · Tribun Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 978

in french version "une fois attaché à une unité, il le reste jusqu'à la fin du tour ou de la mêlée s'il s'engage en mêlée" in french, "il" can only means the general, it would have been "elle" if it was for the unit.
so with the correct subject in () this is in English:

"when attached to a unit, (the general) stays with that until until the end of the turn or the end of the melee if (the general) is engaged in melee"
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