Art De La Guerre

[footslogger]

side B attacks side A, two stands to one ending up like this

A
BB

where B is in corner-to-corner contact with A.

In side B's next turn, assuming the situation is unchanged. Can the overlapping stand B slide forward onto the side edge of A?

On the one hand, I think "yes" as this is allowed as part of a pursuit.
On the other hand, I think "no" because contact along the side edge of a stand is forbidden unless the unit is behind the front edge, per the rules on p 51.

[Hazelbark]

If you mean

AB
B

Where both B are facing up straight up. Then yes.

BUT

If you mean the B that moved has also turned its front edge into contact with A's side edge. Then absolutely not. For the very point you cite. Note it is not the unit, it is the unit's front edge must be behind the enemy's front edge.

[footslogger]

[Ramses II]

I believe the rules on P51 explain that you may only charge into an enemy flank (ie move into contact with the front edge ) where the unit is already deemed to be located to the flank of the enemy. As far as I am aware, the rules do not prevent you from moving into a position flank to flank with an enemy unit, just that this would not result in a melee between these two units (see p50, support, third bullet point)

What you are describing is one way for the second B unit to get into position to attack the flank of A. It can takes up to three turns to achieve this;
#1 - charge as a group into frontal contact with A
#2 - slide forwards to threaten the flank
#3 - turn to attack the flank

Note, if B1 and B2 moved separately (and assuming that they had enough movement allowance) B2 could be moved past the front edge of A, which would remove the second step above.

[footslogger]

[eudes]

[footslogger]

I really think this needs clarified in the rules.

If it's ok to slide forward from corner-to-corner contact, it should be ok to slide up on the side of a unit as a voluntary move? From not beginning in contact.

Here is an attempt to diagram this situation:

A1

(slightly more than 1UD gap between A1 and B1)

B1 (less than 1 UD gap between B1 and B2) B2

spend one CP and B1 moves into the front of A1
spend one CP to move B2 forward and shift it to the side so it is in side to side contact with A1

Then at the end of the melee, B2 conforms to A1 turning on its flank.


Is this allowed?

(If B1 and B2 move together, then B2 could (by spending a CP) on a subsequent turn to slide forward into side-to-side contact and then conform at the end of the melee.)

I think all this is fine, but it's not quite clear from the rules, which is why I think it should go in the FAQ.

[Hazelbark]

[footslogger]

[Hazelbark]

So I see your point. And we can seek clarification because I suspect a lot of people assume something.

Also to inform your position (not contradicting it) you can only move into a support position if the enemy is already engaged in melee. p 36, 2nd bullet. Usually this is fixed by sequence of movement, but sometimes with different commands or traffic jams it can matter.

[footslogger]

Thanks.

Although looking closely at the conform rules and the charge rules, now I'm of the opinion that sliding forward or making side-edge contact, is not going to put you in a position to conform on a flank (can't if you're in support as you pointed out) or charge (cannot charge an enemy you are already in contact with), and so makes sliding up like that not a likely choice.

[Ramses II]

Hi Footslogger. Have you seen the examples in the FAQ sheet.
P6. gives some examples of conforming which seem to cover what you are interested in.

You should also note that Charging, Supporting and Conforming are separate but key elements of AdlG. As Hazelbark has explained, whilst charging a unit may cause it to conform to an enemy unit, moving into a support position does not cause it to conform.

Perhaps a different question that might help our mutual understanding is that, given the position below, whether group BB can move to the side of AA without any other units in front of AA, and what would happen at this point. EG.

AA

. . . BB

Can group BB move to this position next to group AA, and what happens next?

AABB

[Hazelbark]

So I have been told by an authoritative source that the contact restrictions on page 51 pertain only to charges.

And specifically we should look at page 52. The last paragraph below the bullets that says "a unit can always contact an enemy to provide support if this enemy is already engaged in melee when the unit makes contact."

So yes you can move up to side edge to side edge contact with an enemy notwithstanding page 51 if you are moving to a place of support an existing melee.

[Ramses II]

Agreed Hazelbark. What you quote relates to charging into contact with an enemy (front edge to some face of the enemy unit) and Supporting units which may end up sliding edge to edge.

My question was whether a unit could move into edge to edge contact without actually supporting a melee, and if so, what then happened

[footslogger]