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Crossbow query
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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Dgp1957
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Inscrit le: 08 Nov 2018
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 8:26 am    Sujet du message: Crossbow query Répondre en citant
Hi folks, just a quick question regarding crossbows.
In the rulebook all target troop types have a protection of 1.
Does that apply to troops who have a protection of 0, increasing their protection from 0 to 1.
Or does it mean that all target troops can only have a maximum protection of 1?
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Three
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Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2017
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 9:40 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
It's both, except elephants and war wagons.

Crossbows (or firearms) shooting at bowmen or medium cavalry or medium camels who normally have a protection factor of 0 count a protection factor of 1.
Cataphracts or heavy knights or armoured foot etc who would normally have a protection factor of 2 have it reduced to a factor of 1.

Elephants or war wagons retain their normal protection factors.
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Mark G Fry
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 9:51 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Dgp1957 a écrit:
Hi folks, just a quick question regarding crossbows.
In the rulebook all target troop types have a protection of 1.
Does that apply to troops who have a protection of 0, increasing their protection from 0 to 1.
Or does it mean that all target troops can only have a maximum protection of 1?


Page 58 states that all units except Elephants (which have '0' protection) and War Wagons (which have a +2 protection) have a protection of +1 against Crossbows and Handguns regardless of their actual armour.

Bowmen, Crossbowmen, Handgunners and MC (& Medium Camels) are a 'natural' protection '0' (see table on page 22) and so their protection goes up to +1 when shot at by Crossbows
Units with an existing +1 protection remain at +1
Units with an existing +2 protection (Cataphracts and Heavy Knights or foot units with additional armour) goes down to +1
Units with an existing +3 protection (Foot Knights) goes down to +1

So yes, other than Elephants (@ '0') and War wagons (@ +2) every other unit is on +1 protection.

Units with pavices add +1 to the units protection, after the Crossbow modifier is applied, as the pavice counts as additional cover.
Likewise units in terrain that add +1 protection, also add +1 to their overall protection, so it is always added.
Cover from terrain cancels out the cover provided by the pavice.
Field Fortifications also add a +1 protection that is not effected by Crossbows, so is always added.

So (for example) a HYW French Pavisier is a HF spear (a 'natural' +1 protection) + armour (another +1) + pavice (another +1) = total +3.
Shot at by Crossbows this is reduced to a +2, as the armour is negated, but the pavice still applies.
However, a Genoese Crossbow unit is Crossbow, a 'natural' '0' protection, increased to +1 for being shot at by enemy crossbows, +1 for pavice = total +2

I think that covers just about every eventuality Smile
Cheers
Mark
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'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis
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KevinD
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 2:45 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I agree with Three and Mark above.

The tricky one is Armored Elephants. Are they a net 0 or 1? Their base is clearly a 0, but do they count armor? I think not as p 56 says Armor and Heavy Armor bonuses do not apply vs crossbows and firearms.
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Mark G Fry
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 8:04 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
KevinD a écrit:
I agree with Three and Mark above.

The tricky one is Armored Elephants. Are they a net 0 or 1? Their base is clearly a 0, but do they count armor? I think not as p 56 says Armor and Heavy Armor bonuses do not apply vs crossbows and firearms.


I agree - based on the p56 statement.
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Neep
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Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 9:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Note that the effect of pavises, cover, or fortification is not cumulative. Any one gives a -1, but two or three still only gives a -1.
They also get a +1 against mounted, unless LI. (Thus heavy troop xbow is essentially +1 against El, armored or not.)
The notes are for crossbows and firearms. Incendiaries, longbows, artillery, bows, and javelins/slings/atlatl have their own quirks, as do LI using them.
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Dgp1957
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MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 24, 2025 9:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks folks. Very Happy
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