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Graeme Ralph
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 24 Sep 2019 Messages: 5
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 3:15 am Sujet du message: RULES VERSION 5 |
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Gents,
We all have lots of scribbled notes in our margins and it’s time for a new edition to be published. Can I suggest:
New edition needed to incorporate all current amendments.
Hardcopy to be loose leaf, spiral bound or equivalent. The current version is thick and difficult to flip through.
A much expanded index.
The lists made a separate volume and available on line as a download.
The rules to be available electronically on a web site for viewing, but not printing or copying; this method is common for national standards such as ASTM, AS, etc.
Remove the photos of the miniatures, as they only add to the size of the document.
Add examples of 200point army lists.
Graeme |
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SteveR
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018 Messages: 287
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 4:56 am Sujet du message: |
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Well, it is like this.
I agree with you on point 1. When I consider the hours of play I get from the rules I would happily buy another couple of updated copies
I'm neutral on your second request. I just take the rules as they are to a local copy shop and have mine spiral bound. This also allows me choice on your point number 4
I fully support a much expanded index and will be happy to see someone else compile it. They can count on me for hearty words of encouragement and episodic sound advice. And applause when they finish.
Because I choose to have mine spiral bound I actually do it both ways. I have one complete set bound as is, and take the second set and split it into a set of rules and a set of army lists. I find it easier to use "just the rules" in a game but like having one complete document for travel. I'd love to see it online, but am not sure this is in the authors best interest, although it might be in mine.
As for online availability, again I am not sure this is best for the author and question the impregnability of the security.
The photos add to the visual appeal and allow for a place to enter rules clarifications. I doubt if the necessity for that will stop
Are examples of army lists (which are already easily found online) all that more valuable than the pictures? I dont think so.
But let me add two other points to your request:
First, like the index, I would love to see someone else take the time and energy to make an easy to use online army builder. The excel spreadsheet is just "okay" and best, and surely my warm approbation is sufficient reward for them to make this effort.
Second there is an egregious error that still has not been corrected which must be included in version 5. Charging Heavy infantry cannot "roll down" and so have a minimum 2 UD move when chasing evaders. But bladed war wagons who charge are not afforded this exemption. This is most unfair. Indeed, I think that bladed war wagons who charge downhill should be treated as impetuous and required to make a full move. Or even get an extra UD as they are rolling faster and faster down the slope.
Thank you for attending my talk. |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 11:48 am Sujet du message: |
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Steve’s points are generally sensible, but…
If there’s to be a 5th edition are there any changes to the actual rules? Have these been “destructively†playtested to make sure they are clear, work as intended and aren’t exploitable? Similarly for changes to lists. |
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Mark G Fry
Signifer
Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017 Messages: 333
Localisation: Bristol, UK
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 12:03 pm Sujet du message: |
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KevinD a écrit: | Steve’s points are generally sensible, but…
If there’s to be a 5th edition are there any changes to the actual rules? Have these been “destructively†playtested to make sure they are clear, work as intended and aren’t exploitable? Similarly for changes to lists. |
I think having the lists with the rules is one of the great features of ADLG (personally) and whilst there are some lists could be added (such as a later Medieval Peasants Revolt list) and some that do need adjustment (I've made my case for the Khmer and Later Samurai/Japanese list previously), generally I wouldn't want too many more. The idea that you 'need' c.400+ lists - which another set of ancient/medieval rules is at, at present - is totally unnecessary & just complicates things (IMHO). And that is a danger with on-line lists, although as a rules writer it is nice to be able to make minor corrections easily online.
TBF, there are also not that many Errata to v.4 compared to other sets of rules anyway and whilst I'd appreciate a 'fresh' copy of my rules set, which is now a bit 'dog-eared' and tatty, I'm not really sure a v.5 is that necessary. But I'd buy one if it was published.
Cheers
Mark |
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Three
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2017 Messages: 180
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 2:16 pm Sujet du message: |
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Leave as is, better meddle with the de'il than the rabbit hole of continual tinkering....to paraphrase my town motto. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1544
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 6:34 pm Sujet du message: |
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Take your current copy.
Go to office supply store (fedex kinkos)
Have them snip off the binder.
Then you have the rules bound in to separate spiral binders one for army lists the other for rules.
There most of your portability is fixed. |
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Dickstick
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016 Messages: 682
Localisation: West Bromwich
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 6:49 pm Sujet du message: |
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I split mine into three and previously ring bound but currently put into plastic pocket books.
Rules, first three list periods, second three list periods.
Each is not then too big and sit flat on the table .
As for heavy infantry can never roll down.
Yes they can but are not forced to take the short move but can if they wish (impetuous troops excepted) _________________ Player 747 don't call me Jumbo |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1544
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Posté le: Mer Mar 20, 2024 6:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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Graeme Ralph a écrit: |
Add examples of 200point army lists.
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Do you want examples of "how to" or "good lists"
I find the list design very interesting and to your point could use a lot more discussion of theory. The problem is there is a too taste or more aptly to strategy problem.
I have a habit of designing armies with Corps A: Mounted. Corps B: Foot. Corps C: mix of each and best commander. This gives me flexibility in deployment to mass the mounted on one side or have mounted on both wings. But i have received a lot of push back from players. That prefer here is my slogging corps, here is the rough going corps and here is the maneuver corps. That structure i find flawed. But it keeps showing up as surely as the redcoats kept coming up bunker hill.
Julian Lopez has posted his thought (v3) in the Aids section of the website. But i have heard a lot of players struggle with his advice.
Then you have army let's take Macedonian and people want that for a big wodge of phalanx. But along comes someone successful and they take minimal phalanx. People reject. Not saying either is right, but it creates cross currents that are different than expectations.
Add in the evolving meta which also varies per region. US players tend to like heavier armies and play with more aggression. There have been phases in Europe with lighter more maneuverable armies and then also bulked out armies to not lose.
It is fair that probably more build out of how to for beginners could be added. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1473
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Ven Mar 22, 2024 7:36 pm Sujet du message: |
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V3 came out in 2015, and lasted completely unchanged (apart from by the FAQ document) until 2021.
I suspect that it is therefore best to plan for the idea that v4 will have a similar trajectory, especially as there appear to be rather fewer FAQ items this time around.Â
Whether that is deemed right or wrong is down to personal preference, but the preference of the author seems clear - and he does not appear to be someone who is easily lobbied. _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Graeme Ralph
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 24 Sep 2019 Messages: 5
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Posté le: Lun Mar 25, 2024 12:06 am Sujet du message: |
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Gentlemen, thanks for your comments. My main motivation in posting this thread was to encourage the printing of a new version which incorporates all of the Errata, as there is now quite a lot of it, and navigating my update notes in the margins is becoming difficult! Graeme. |
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DarkBlack
Barbare
Inscrit le: 20 Mar 2020 Messages: 26
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Posté le: Lun Mar 25, 2024 6:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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While it would be nice to have a book with all the changes and errata corrected, and would pay for it, I'm not sure it would be a worthwhile to produce.
There are not that many, certainly not enough for a new edition, and there will likely be more errata along.
Similarly; having the lists in a separate book would be nice, but not sure that making two books where one does well enough is worthwhile. ADLG with all the lists isn't that cumbersome, to be honest.
I don't know much about how much trouble either would be, so please correct me if I'm in error.
If anything, I would rather have the time and energy spent on polishing and publishing an official ADLG-R supplement. |
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