Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

OK - that is very clear - thank you. However, how does that work in practice?

So in the events I describe, the Defending player places his Ambushes behind the hill 1st.
The Attacking player then places his ambush marker (the one that can see the Ambushes behind the hill) 2nd.

Does the Defending player then automatically lose his Ambushes and will have to (in effect) redeploy his units that were in the ambush back in his deployment area?
Or can he relocate his Ambushes (if possible)?

Also - must the Attacking player actually now have at least 1 unit in Ambush on the Ambush marker that could see behind the hill? As otherwise he has no unit that could have seen behind the hill.

Tricky

[Neep]

As I read it, the marker must be out of sight from "any point". Presumably scouts are everywhere. No unit has yet been deployed, so nothing is based on a unit's vision. You know immediately if it's legal or not.

[madaxeman]

[Mark G Fry]

Thanks Tim
Having now read P.77 - Placing Ambushes - 4th bullet, 2nd sentence etc. I believe the process to be as follows:

1) defender places Ambush marker(s) behind hill

2) attacker places Ambush marker so that it can 'observe' any enemy units that might be in the defenders ambush marker behind the hill. This makes placing the defender Ambush marker(s) invalid - so no ambush is possible (NB: the enemy ambush marker is treated as an enemy unit even if it is actually an empty ambush)

3) so in effect the defender has 'lost' this ambush opportunity (due to the IGYG nature of deploying ambush markers)

4) the defender must now deploy the units that would have been in the ambush marker(s) behind the hill inside their normal deployment area, in compliance with their original deployment plan (e.g. behind the ambush marker)

Understood and that all makes sense.
Thank you all
Mark

[KevinD]

That doesn’t sound right, Mark.

P 77 6th bullet says “…out of sight of the enemy from any point in its deployment zone, including the ambush zone.”

To me this says it must not be visible from the ambush zone regardless of whether there is an ambush marker there or not.

(It even says it can’t be visible from the ‘ambush zone”, not just from where the visibility rules might allow an ambush marker to be deployed. (For attacker’s ambush marker,) Does this mean, in practice, not visible from the defender’s 1/2 of the table (excluding the 3 UD deep strip along the centerline in the defender’s center zone), or just not visible locations on the those locations in defender’s 1/2 of the table where ambush markers could be placed due to the visibility rules? I’m not sure be a literal reading of the rules and looking at the illustration on p 77 would imply the former (that is, not visible from anywhere on the attacker’s 1/2 of the table.))

(Edited for grammar/spelling.)

[Ramses II]

Basically, whoever is placing an ambush marker must ensure that the marker and the ‘ambush zone’ cannot be seen from anywhere in the enemy’s deployment zones - ignore your point about using an ambush marker, it is a red herring. 

To do this you must consider the terrain locations which may adjust what can be seen. A laser marker is ideal here, it allows players to draw a line across the table to decide on what can be seen from another point. 

[madaxeman]

As Kevin says:

[Mark G Fry]

That all makes sense.
So visibility to behind a terrain feature bears no relationship to an actual enemy unit or ambush marker.
I get that