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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Dim Juil 25, 2021 9:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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For me the question here is this:
If the only way to resolve this situation is for a player to spend pips moving a unit, are they required to do so? |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1204
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Dim Juil 25, 2021 10:33 pm Sujet du message: |
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No, Ethan. Given sufficient CP, the player has the choice of using the points to move the unit away from this corner-to-corner contact (possibly to charge another enemy), or to conform the unit and use the CP elsewhere.Â
If the unit is impetuous, the cost of moving elsewhere may make conformation more likely. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 474
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 9:57 am Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | …..If the unit is impetuous, the cost of moving elsewhere may make conformation more likely. |
Just confirming that an impetuous unit is entitled to conform “for free†and that this takes precedence over an uncontrolled charge (against a new, valid enemy target). |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1204
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 11:08 am Sujet du message: |
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Yup, conformation is “free†and occurs at the start of the movement phase.
But there is no precedence either way - the player is free to to let Impetuous troops continue fighting where they are (through conformation), or to choose to order them elsewhere if he has sufficient CP.Â
However, it will cost 3CP if that movement does not result in contact with another enemy unit. Given that melees have already started on the battlefield, and the potential for friends to be in the way, this cost may be prohibitive at this point in the game. |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 2:49 pm Sujet du message: |
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Imagine I am a unit in a ZOC of one enemy to my flank (which still must be respected) so requiring a quarter turn to engage. I am on the flank of another enemy triggering the clause in question. Do I HAVE to pay CP to quarter turn and engage? |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 747
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 3:46 pm Sujet du message: |
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ethan a écrit: | Imagine I am a unit in a ZOC of one enemy to my flank (which still must be respected) so requiring a quarter turn to engage. I am on the flank of another enemy triggering the clause in question. Do I HAVE to pay CP to quarter turn and engage? |
Hi Ethan,
because of the ZoC on your flank you can't conform on the flank of the touching unit. This is where the "if at all possible" clause kicks in.
Neither are you forced to engage the unit ZoCing your flank, though if you want to you'll have to pay the usual movement costs.
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1204
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 4:35 pm Sujet du message: |
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Agreed Dave.
P51 2nd bullet states Citation: | ZoCs and restrictions on contact with the enemy must be respected and take precedence over the obligation to conform | In the case you propose, the unit must respect the enemy unit ZoC (being the "most threatening enemy"), and may just possibly also be subject to contact restrictions which would further restrict the possible actions. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 747
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 4:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | Yup, conformation is “free†and occurs at the start of the movement phase.
But there is no precedence either way - the player is free to to let Impetuous troops continue fighting where they are (through conformation), or to choose to order them elsewhere if he has sufficient CP.Â
However, it will cost 3CP if that movement does not result in contact with another enemy unit. Given that melees have already started on the battlefield, and the potential for friends to be in the way, this cost may be prohibitive at this point in the game. |
Okay, this is getting complicated now and straying away from just conformation.
Most conformation occurs as the final part of another movement (charge, pursuit or move to support), but this one stands alone.
It has to be done at some point in that Corps' movement phase, certainly. Other than that, I think the player can choose when.
If the player chooses to order unit C (HCv Impetuous) to charge another enemy unit it will cost only 1CP, or 2CP if it turns. But what if the player doesn't have any CPs left.
Can the player choose between conformation and uncontrolled charge? Is there really no precedence?
One argument is because it's uncontrolled it has to obey the priority for selecting an uncontrolled charge target - firstly to charge any unit directly to its front then if there is no unit directly to its front it conforms on the enemy it's in contact with as its nearest target.
Another view is that its priority is to continue the melee it was participating in and not go haring off after new enemy.
I'm inclined towards the latter on the grounds that the new rule seems to favour continuing an existing fight. But I'm really not sure.
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 6:30 pm Sujet du message: |
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daveallen a écrit: | ethan a écrit: | Imagine I am a unit in a ZOC of one enemy to my flank (which still must be respected) so requiring a quarter turn to engage. I am on the flank of another enemy triggering the clause in question. Do I HAVE to pay CP to quarter turn and engage? |
Hi Ethan,
because of the ZoC on your flank you can't conform on the flank of the touching unit. This is where the "if at all possible" clause kicks in.
Neither are you forced to engage the unit ZoCing your flank, though if you want to you'll have to pay the usual movement costs.
Dave |
Go read the section again (p. 51) it is not just conforming that appears to be required.
"The phasing player should resolve all such situations during his movement phase _it all possbile_, either by confirmation, _by moving units_, or _by making charges against other enemies_."
In this case "moving units" is "at all possible" so is it required? |
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Dickstick
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016 Messages: 697
Localisation: West Bromwich
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 6:57 pm Sujet du message: |
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Either take control/responsibility of the unit or it conforms of it's own accord.
You have a free choice. _________________ Player 747 don't call me Jumbo |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1204
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 7:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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This is not really complicated, we just have to go through the logic spelled out in p51, starting with the OP that two opposing units remain in corner-corner contact after a melee.Â
Paraphrasing we get:  Players must resolve the situation if possible, by conformation, movement or charging during the movement phase. - Player’s choice (no precedence stated).
- This includes ‘uncontrolled charges’ made after all other movement
- A few unit types / situations do not require conformationÂ
- ZoCs and contact restrictions most be observed
- Impetuous units must charge, conform or pay 3CP to move elsewhere (player’s choice)
- After conformation, the enemy may evade
- This kind of conformation is not a charge.Â
As we have already noted, there may be situations where the actual choices are restricted or even removed altogether, forcing a particular action or even inaction. That is the nature of the game.Â
I might add that being less able to control Impetuous troops just feels right, causing them to get into situations that more disciplined troops might avoid. |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 10:32 pm Sujet du message: |
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Dickstick a écrit: | Either take control/responsibility of the unit or it conforms of it's own accord.
You have a free choice. |
In my example it cannot conform, it is in another units ZOC. |
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Dickstick
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016 Messages: 697
Localisation: West Bromwich
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 10:38 pm Sujet du message: |
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So I sits there pinned, like a lemon, and waits for the opposition to conform . Probably with rent a mob in attendance. _________________ Player 747 don't call me Jumbo |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 747
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Lun Juil 26, 2021 10:40 pm Sujet du message: |
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ethan a écrit: | In this case "moving units" is "at all possible" so is it required? |
When you put it like that, yes it is required
If possible.
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Mar Juil 27, 2021 2:52 am Sujet du message: |
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Dickstick a écrit: | So I sits there pinned, like a lemon, and waits for the opposition to conform . Probably with rent a mob in attendance. |
But the rule requires you to act if possible, in this case it is "possible" but requires you to spend pips... |
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