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Nostrebor
Archer
Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2014
Messages: 62
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 Posté le: Mer Jan 20, 2016 4:37 pm Sujet du message: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement distance& |
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In the FAQ there is the explanation " When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. If your initial targets cannot evade, you don’t need to adjust your movement distance. Example : you have a group of HI at 2 UD distance from HI enemy units. LI enemy units are between the two groups. If you charge the HI enemy units you don’t need to adjust your move distance even if all LI evade. "
If there is Light Cav (or any unit capable of evading, but not required to evade) between a charger A and an enemy unit B can A say it is charging B (assuming it is in range) even though it will not reach it if the intervening unit chooses to not evade?
Similarly can A say "I am charging the Light Cav" and then be forced to roll if the Light Cav evades even though B is within charge range. |
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belinconnux
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 09 Sep 2009
Messages: 5443
Localisation: BORDEAUX, near Vana
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 21, 2016 8:49 am Sujet du message: |
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You have to adjust your your mouvement distance with your target. If this one evade you have to roll a die.
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Hasta la victoria Siempre!
Peter Lord dobeul impact |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 21, 2016 1:37 pm Sujet du message: |
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The charge procedure requires you to specify the target of the charge (see step #1 on p38). Consequently you cannot declare a charge against a static target B which is out of range, even if there is an intervening enemy capable of evading.
So, "No", you cannot declare "B" as the target of a charge if it is not in range.
However, P40 3rd para says that non-Impetuous chargers may reduce their charge distance to 1U for Infantry (2U for cavalry), thus possibly avoiding contact with unit "B" where the intervening enemy all evade. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1550
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| Posté le: Jeu Jan 21, 2016 4:49 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| Nostrebor a écrit: |
Similarly can A say "I am charging the Light Cav" and then be forced to roll if the Light Cav evades even though B is within charge range. |
NO. This has been covered by author.
C 1 2
C is charging. 1 evades. If 2 is within a normal move and path of C then there is NO roll for adjusted distance. |
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Nostrebor
Archer
Inscrit le: 20 Déc 2014
Messages: 62
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 12:56 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: | | Nostrebor a écrit: |
Similarly can A say "I am charging the Light Cav" and then be forced to roll if the Light Cav evades even though B is within charge range. |
NO. This has been covered by author.
C 1 2
C is charging. 1 evades. If 2 is within a normal move and path of C then there is NO roll for adjusted distance. |
I would interpret the FAQ statement "When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range." as saying if C declared a charge on 2 it would not have to roll if 1 evades because 2 is the target. However if it says I want to charge 1 and 1 evades then it would roll (all targets evade).
Another way to ask the question is "What if C wants to hit 1 (if it does not evade) but does not want to charge 2". Assuming 2 is greater than minimum charge distance is this legal or does charging a target capable of evading make all units in the charge path a target? |
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footslogger
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 4:27 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| Nostrebor a écrit: | | Hazelbark a écrit: | | Nostrebor a écrit: |
Similarly can A say "I am charging the Light Cav" and then be forced to roll if the Light Cav evades even though B is within charge range. |
NO. This has been covered by author.
C 1 2
C is charging. 1 evades. If 2 is within a normal move and path of C then there is NO roll for adjusted distance. |
I would interpret the FAQ statement "When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range." as saying if C declared a charge on 2 it would not have to roll if 1 evades because 2 is the target. However if it says I want to charge 1 and 1 evades then it would roll (all targets evade).
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I agree with this.
If you are an impetuous charger your life is complicated because you must move the whole distance of the pursuit, but for all other troops you can stop after making the minimum move if you want. |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 4:46 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| Nostrebor a écrit: |
I would interpret the FAQ statement |
Things should not be read in a vacuum. The question was pretty clearly posed to the authoer and Hazelbark's reply was the response.
"When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade,"
Note the "distance of movement" bit that is a fixed distance based on unit type. |
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footslogger
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 5:39 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| ethan a écrit: | | Nostrebor a écrit: |
I would interpret the FAQ statement |
Things should not be read in a vacuum. The question was pretty clearly posed to the authoer and Hazelbark's reply was the response. |
Where did the author respond? Basically answers like this should be in the FAQ post haste. I can refer to a published FAQ pretty easily. Referring to something buried in a forum somewhere is problematic at best.
| ethan a écrit: |
"When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade,"
Note the "distance of movement" bit that is a fixed distance based on unit type. |
"If all targets in charge range evade," doesn't mean that all targets in charge range have to be the target of a charge, does it? |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1550
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 5:48 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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Read the FAQ thread
date from author he responds to several points I posted.
Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:56 am |
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footslogger
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 6:19 pm Sujet du message: Re: Clarification on the "Evade adjusted movement dista |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: | Read the FAQ thread
date from author he responds to several points I posted.
Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:56 am |
I found this:
"When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. "
that text seems to be very similar to the text in the FAQ:
"When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice."
Given that we are talking about the interpretation of what ended up in the FAQ, I don't see how the text in the FAQ thread helps 
And I don't see anything in that language that says that all targets in charge range must be targets of the charge. Given that, I would agree with what you said here:
| Citation: |
C 1 2
C is charging. 1 evades. If 2 is within a normal move and path of C then there is NO roll for adjusted distance. |
But also I would say that 1 can be the target of the charge and 2 does not have to be, so C could stop at 1UD (if foot) or 2UD (if mounted). |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 6:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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The full text of the URL (listed here) is very explicit in this case:-
| Citation: | Evade adjusted movement distance
Q : Page 40, what constitutes “all targets†of a charge for purposes of charging unit needing to roll an adjusted move distance ?
A : When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. If your initial targets cannot evade, you don’t need to adjust your movement distance.
Example : you have a group of HI at 2 UD distance from HI enemy units. LI enemy units are between the two groups. If you charge the HI enemy units you don’t need to adjust your move distance even if all LI evade. |
my emphasis added
So basically, if your nominated target evades you roll adjustment dice, if the nominated target does not evade you don't.
Simples as they say  |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 7:57 pm Sujet du message: |
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I suggest reading the threads discussing this.
http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4014&start=0
This is asked an explicitly answered on the first page of the thread.
The rules author is quite clear. Now you may feel the FAQ is unclear, but that is a different issue.
The "initial target" in this instance means ANYONE with in range of the normal/unmodified charge distance. You might ask "what is a non-initial target then?" If you roll long you can hit someone that was not an initial target.
| Hazelbark a écrit: | wrote:
2) What constitutes “all targets†of a charge for purposes of charging unit needing to roll an adjusted move distance.
| hcaille a écrit: | | When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. |
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footslogger
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 12 Jan 2015
Messages: 166
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 8:37 pm Sujet du message: |
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I have no idea why you think the rules author is quite clear in the thread and possibly unclear in the FAQ because the answer provided in the thread IS the answer in the FAQ. What am I missing?
| Citation: |
The "initial target" in this instance means ANYONE with in range of the normal/unmodified charge distance. You might ask "what is a non-initial target then?" If you roll long you can hit someone that was not an initial target.
| Hazelbark a écrit: | wrote:
2) What constitutes “all targets†of a charge for purposes of charging unit needing to roll an adjusted move distance.
| hcaille a écrit: | | When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. |
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I don't think I agree with this. ANYONE does not mean EVERYONE or do you think it does? Clearly you can wheel or shift to single out a particular stand in charge reach as the target of a charge when there are multiple possible targets, right?
Dernière édition par footslogger le Ven Jan 22, 2016 9:18 pm; édité 2 fois |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 8:41 pm Sujet du message: |
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| ethan a écrit: | I suggest reading the threads discussing this.
http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4014&start=0
This is asked an explicitly answered on the first page of the thread.
The rules author is quite clear. Now you may feel the FAQ is unclear, but that is a different issue.
The "initial target" in this instance means ANYONE with in range of the normal/unmodified charge distance. |
You seem to have used the same link as me, to the FAQ which I extracted as my quote. Were you intending to link to a different thread?
Also you have come to a different conclusion regarding the definition of the target, which you believe is "ANYONE" in range. This seems to fly in the face of the example provided by the author in the FAQ, where the "Target" is only the HI, not the HI and intervening LI. |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
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| Posté le: Ven Jan 22, 2016 9:06 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Ramses II a écrit: |
Also you have come to a different conclusion regarding the definition of the target, which you believe is "ANYONE" in range. This seems to fly in the face of the example provided by the author in the FAQ, where the "Target" is only the HI, not the HI and intervening LI. |
I read what the author wrote in the FAQ thread.
"When you declare a charge, you must specify your target and this target must be in charge range. If all targets in charge range (i.e distance of movement) evade, then you must adjust your movement distance by rolling a dice. "
See the post by hcaille at date/time Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:56 am |
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