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plefebvre
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 30 Déc 2009 Messages: 1164
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 6:37 pm Sujet du message: |
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see page 49 "shooting overhead" , last bullet.
When a LH unit is shooting in support behind another LH unit, then the shooting range is measured from the front unit.
Consequently you must consider the nearest ennemy from the front unit.
See also the FAQ page 12 , which clarifies the arc of fire and nearest enemy for LH
TB/ rule committee _________________ patrick lefebvre
"sic transit gloria mundi" |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 7:50 pm Sujet du message: |
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So to be clear:
1. Where there is only one LH unit, it may shoot 360 degrees. In practical terms every edge would be considered “front edge†for determining which of multiple targets the LH must select e.g. where two enemy units moved within 2UD of a LH’s rear edge, and the LH must shoot at the nearest target to its rear edge.
2. Where there are 4 LH in a 2x2 block, they can only shoot forward (from one of the unit’s front edges) to gain the maximum effect, as this involves overhead shooting rule constraints.
3. Each single unit in the 2x2 block could chose to shoot from its own side/rear/front edge at up to 4 separate targets.Â
4. If one unit in a 2x2 block shoots at a target to its side/rear edge, it can never get support shooting bonuses from any other unit in the block as the rules do not permit overhead shooting to the side or rear. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2019 9:08 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: | 3. Each single unit in the 2x2 block could chose to shoot from its own side/rear/front edge at up to 4 separate targets.Â
4. If one unit in a 2x2 block shoots at a target to its side/rear edge, it can never get support shooting bonuses from any other unit in the block as the rules do not permit overhead shooting to the side or rear. |
#4 doesn't follow from the rest. Support doesn't have to come from overhead shooting.
So, for example - a block of four LC Bow arranged 2x2 can shoot as follows:
.
.
Assuming all are in range.
shoots at
supports, shooting overhead
supports, shooting forward from its front edge
supports, shooting from its side edge
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Ven Mar 15, 2019 1:10 am Sujet du message: |
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@Dave
I was trying to distinguish how the rules/FAQ relating to 360 degree shooting arc, nearest enemy etc apply in the case of a single LH unit compared with a 2x2 block.
Single unit:
In practice, every edge is in effect a front edge for determining valid targets. My understanding is that a LH can elect to shoot at a target to its rear or side in preference to a valid target to its front. It is not forced to shoot at a target forward of its actual front edge. The effectiveness of a single LH shooting is equal regardless of whether the target is to its front, side or rear.
2x2 block:
The 360 degree shooting arc does not apply to a block. In order to maximise the block’s shooting (all 4 units contribute), the target has to be forward of the actual front edge of the block. The block’s shooting to it’s side or rear are less effective (a maximum of 2 units contribute) than shooting to its front. A block can’t use the 360 degree shooting arc rule in the same way as a single unit can. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Ven Mar 15, 2019 11:38 am Sujet du message: |
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Fair enough Zoltan. _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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harryKonst
Archer
Inscrit le: 04 Juil 2017 Messages: 63
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Posté le: Ven Mar 29, 2019 6:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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On page 9 under the title << Units directly in front>> , last sentence, we read: For shooting purposes only, a WWg or LH unit counts its shooting edge as its front edge.
So, a L.Horse has 4 shooting edges and they all count as front edges for shooting.So, we measure always from the front edge which is the nearest edge of L.Horse for shooting. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Lun Avr 01, 2019 5:48 pm Sujet du message: |
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That’s exactly my point!
If every edge of a LH counts as a front edge for shooting purposes, in a 2x2 group of 4 LH units doesn’t that mean the block can shoot sideways and backwards with full effect (counting overhead shooting)? |
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harryKonst
Archer
Inscrit le: 04 Juil 2017 Messages: 63
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Posté le: Mar Avr 02, 2019 6:22 am Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan, personally I find very interesting what you say,( that 2 Lh side by side can shoot to an enemy unit that lies by the side of one of them), but the rule in page 49 describes their (the Lh) relative positions in detail and says that they have to be aligned corner to corner and in contact just behind. The phrase 'just behind' refers to their position according to the full game system (not just for shooting purposes),as I understand the rule. So they can't support one another to a side shooting.We don't count them as if their sides are fronts and so they are one ''behind'' the other. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mar Avr 02, 2019 8:17 am Sujet du message: |
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Harry - I am talking about 4 LH units all perfectly lined up in a block, 2 units wide and 2 units deep.
LHLH
LHLH
if it is true that for shooting purposes LH count ALL their edges as “front†edges, then why can the block not shoot to the side and to the rear with the same effect as if it is shooting in the direction the figures face (the “true†front)? In other words the block can do overhead and support shooting sideways and to the rear because all edges are in effect front edges. |
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harryKonst
Archer
Inscrit le: 04 Juil 2017 Messages: 63
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Posté le: Mar Avr 02, 2019 10:52 am Sujet du message: |
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Because the author has to make a clarification and says so. I'm just reading the rule of shooting overhead in page 49, and since I'm not the author, I understand the rule as I wrote you to my previous answer. Maybe your interpretation of the rule isn't bad to be adopted, but If we get no other clarification on it, I doubt that it can be adopted from the majority of umpires at tournaments. When I do the umpire I don't allow it, because in page 49 I take that the LHorses have to be one behind the other actually, in general rules terms and not technically by baptizing all their edges as front. Otherwise the rule book should say in a bulletin there that '' For shooting overhead purposes only a Lh counts all his edges as front.''. But it doesn't say so. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Avr 10, 2019 3:32 am Sujet du message: |
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Unfortunately, the just released FAQ doesn't address my questions for LC shooting. Using the diagram style on FAQ p.13.
All units facing up the page.
1
2
B
Can LC1 support LC2 shooting (from its rear edge which counts as a front edge for LC) at enemy B? In this example, LC1 can NOT draw a straight line of sight to unit B. |
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