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List 60 - Classical Greek (Spartan)
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Selaurant
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 31 Jan 2019
Messages: 5
Localisation: Addelaide
MessagePosté le: Jeu Jan 31, 2019 6:39 am    Sujet du message: List 60 - Classical Greek (Spartan) Répondre en citant
Hello from Adelaide. I am new to ADLG but old in Ancients, playing WRG 7th Edition and DBM in the past. I have a Spartan army which is a personal favourite and I would like to see how I can construct a competitive list from it in ADLG. THis would be for 200 points.

List 60 Spartan (465BC)

CIC Competent General
6 Armoured Heavy Spear (4 Elite)
1 Javelineman
1 LI (Javelin)

Sub Command 2 Competent General
4 Armoured Heavy Spear (4 Elite)
2 Javelinemen
2 Thracian MI (Sword)

Sub Command 3 Competent General
2 Mediocre Medium Cavalry
2 Light Cavalry (Javelin)
2 LI (Bow)

Fortified Camp (total 22)

The idea is that there are two strong infantry commands for punch, one with good terrain troops, and a third smaller cavalry command to delay on a flank. I had also considered an Option (B) which would have been to have a Thessalian CIC and sub general, to get Elite Medium Cavalry and Peltasts, then have a Spartan Ally for some more Elite Heavy Spear. Option (C) is to shift to 430BC which means I lose the Armour for the Heavy Spear, but gain a Strategist (Brasidas) and some useful Medium Foot options.

So which Option is better and why:
(A) Spartan Armoured Spear in two commands
(B) Thessalian cavalry in one command with Spartan Armoured Spear and rough terrain troops in the other two
(C) Spartan non-armoured Spear with more numbers (25 units instead of 22), Strategist and more Medium Infantry?

Comments welcome, especially from anyone who has used Spartans at a competition?

thanks

Scott Elaurant
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Snowhitsky
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 184
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Jeu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi,

My personal preference would be to spread the hoplites evenly between the three corps and have 1 LMI javelinmen, 1 LI and 1 mediocre cav per corps. Drop 1 Thracian for the extra CV and use the three points to make a flank general brilliant. Put the remaining MI in the centre command. 1 LH in each flank command. This list gives you an extra initiative point.

The army is small enough to not require terrain troops, just don't go near it. Use the hoplites as a strike force with the javelinmen and cav in support if facing a mobile enemy. If facing infantry use the cav and LMI to harass or as a second line.

Form a line, go forth and be a Spartan.
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Black Prince
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 143
MessagePosté le: Jeu Jan 31, 2019 11:53 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi Scott

Are you a member of a club in Adelaide?

Myself and few friends that were club members are now shed gamers in Adelaide.

cheers
Keith
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ethan
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 264
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 3:04 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Less javelinmen, more LI. No need for a cavalry command attach the MC + LC to one of the brilliant generals. Make a small command of 2 stand of elite Spartiates with an included +0 general. A couple Thracians in one command is probably worthwhile as well.
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Selaurant
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 31 Jan 2019
Messages: 5
Localisation: Addelaide
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 4:50 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks for the comments.

Keith I mainly play at the Holdfast Bay club (Southern Wargamers). I live in the eastern suburbs.

How do you get the Brilliant general? In the early period (to get armoured hoplites) they only have command 3. So do you advocate 1 brilliant, 1 competent and 1 ordinary? Or 2 brilliant, 1 ordinary?

I’d still like to keep the Thracians as rough terrain troops, but I could do this:

CIC Brilliant general
6 Armoured Heavy Spear, 4 Elite
1 LI Javelin
1 Light Horse Javelin

sub Brilliant general
6 Armoured Heavy Spear, 4 Elite
1 LI Javelin
1 Light Horse Javelin

Sub Ordinary general
2 Medium Inf Sword
2 LI Javelin
1 LI Bow

Fortified Camp

Any comments on my other questions? Preference for Armoured Spear vs (later) non Armoured Spear?
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madaxeman
Tribun


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 916
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 11:06 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Most of these commands only need a competent general at best. Ordinary is OK for the one that sits in the middle in the open space. Plodding forward with a solid spear line eats the commanders pip, leaving you one or more pips to move the supporting troops even with an Ordinary general. 

Making one command Brilliant gives you enough command and control to handle a spear line AND a small rough terrain force of a few thracians perfectly well, but allocating a whole general to just the thracians is a bit of overkill. Think of the Brilliant general as running two “commands” of troopson two separate but adjacent missions 
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Snowhitsky
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 184
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 01, 2019 11:50 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
ethan a écrit:
Less javelinmen, more LI. No need for a cavalry command attach the MC + LC to one of the brilliant generals. Make a small command of 2 stand of elite Spartiates with an included +0 general. A couple Thracians in one command is probably worthwhile as well.


The hoplites are armoured which reduces the need for screening. With unarmoured hoplites i would spend the saved points on LI but with armoured HI you lose battle units for units of reduced battlefield value. LMI javelinmen are the best thing since sliced bread IMHO.
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Selaurant
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 31 Jan 2019
Messages: 5
Localisation: Addelaide
MessagePosté le: Sam Fév 02, 2019 10:39 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks for the further comments. Hello Madaxeman, great job on the battle reports!

Nobody has said anything about the Unarmoured Spear or Thessalian options so I assume they are not worth it.

There seem to be diiffferent views on the Javelinemen. Why is thhat?
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madaxeman
Tribun


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 916
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 03, 2019 8:24 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Selaurant a écrit:
There seem to be diiffferent views on the Javelinemen. Why is thhat?


They take a bit of practice and experience to learn how to use properly - they are very situational. If you try using them as a different type of mainline combat troops they will turn out to be useless, but as specialist troops used against elephants, used in helping drive off enemy skirmishers, or in giving you a fast-moving unit to add overlaps or turn flanks they are gold dust in small numbers.
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ethan
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 264
MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 04, 2019 11:00 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Selaurant a écrit:
Thanks for the further comments. Hello Madaxeman, great job on the battle reports!

Nobody has said anything about the Unarmoured Spear or Thessalian options so I assume they are not worth it.

There seem to be diiffferent views on the Javelinemen. Why is thhat?


An unarmoured hoplite army is also viable, at least as viable as an armored one, but plays differently relying on size. I would go for a much larger army of mostly ordinary and mediocre types.

Javelinmen are tricky to use and generally IMO a niche troop type. I prefer LI which are much easier to coordinate with the HI and a few MSw to handle terrain.

If you want a cavalry army, look elsewhere. Saitic Egyptian is a fun army that has serious mounted and can have a lot of hoplites.
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Black Prince
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 143
MessagePosté le: Sam Fév 09, 2019 6:16 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Scott I did not realise there was a club in Glenelg I will have keep that in mind for when Children get bigger and I can get to game more. Group North is too far to go on a regular basis. I live in Kensington Park.

Cheers
Keith
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Selaurant
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 31 Jan 2019
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Localisation: Addelaide
MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 11, 2019 12:01 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Keith I live in Wattle Park. Sounds like I could walk to your plaace in under 15 minutes.

I play on Sunday aftrnoons at Southern Wargamers at Holdfast Bay Community Centre. A bit of a drive but still closer than Group North and nice people.
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Janos Hunyadi
Auxiliaire


Inscrit le: 21 Oct 2016
Messages: 78
MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 15, 2019 8:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In my spartan army, I have one included ordinary general, to really punch a hole. I would be more tempted to have 3 infantry commands with the MF and Mediocre cavalry to support them, rather than have a separate cavalry command.
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Black Prince
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 143
MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 18, 2019 6:12 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Scott it sounds like we should arrange a local game. Things are a bit busy at the moment but I will be in touch. I have Greek figures that can be used in serval diffrent Greek Successor armies.
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Selaurant
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Inscrit le: 31 Jan 2019
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MessagePosté le: Mar Fév 19, 2019 12:01 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Keith

That sounds like a plan. No rush. I have 15mm armies from my days playing DBM. A game of ADLG will motivate me to base up my 28mm figures for ADLG.

regards

Scott
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