Art De La Guerre
Bienvenue sur le forum de discussion de la règle de jeu l'Art De La Guerre
 
FAQFAQ RechercherRechercher Liste des MembresListe des Membres Groupes d'utilisateursGroupes d'utilisateurs S'enregistrerS'enregistrer
ProfilProfil Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés ConnexionConnexion
Republican Roman Legions - upgrade as a whole?
Page 1 sur 1
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Auteur Message
papadopp
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 24 Oct 2014
Messages: 32
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 16, 2017 3:11 pm    Sujet du message: Republican Roman Legions - upgrade as a whole? Répondre en citant
List 53 - the army is organised in legions with different ratios of units etc.
If upgraded (or downgraded), units must done so as a whole(logical and historically accurate)? Or i.e. the Triarii can be upgraded to Elite and the other parts of the legion (Hastati/ Velites) maybe chosen as Ordinary?
Thanks in advance
Paris


Dernière édition par papadopp le Jeu Mar 16, 2017 8:21 pm; édité 1 fois
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 16, 2017 4:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
If you read the list notes, you must do it by the legion.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
papadopp
Gladiateur


Inscrit le: 24 Oct 2014
Messages: 32
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 16, 2017 8:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
If you read the list notes, you must do it by the legion.


Thank you Hazelbark - this time I read the list notes correctly Cool
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
tupiboy
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 02 Jan 2017
Messages: 5
MessagePosté le: Jeu Juin 01, 2017 9:50 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Must the velites be upgraded to elite if the heavy foot is, I note that they cannot be downgraded if the heavy foot is...
_________________
Cheers

Jason
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Jeu Juin 01, 2017 7:21 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
They are part of the legion. The reason they can't be downgraded is no LI in the game are mediocre. So yes if upgraded legion then upgraded velite.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
tupiboy
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 02 Jan 2017
Messages: 5
MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 02, 2017 7:15 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
OK. Can a legion with average Hastati and Principes have elite Triarii (as they are not under the heading newly recruited legions), and a legion with mediocre Hastati and Principes have average Triarii?
_________________
Cheers

Jason
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1462
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Ven Juin 02, 2017 8:54 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
tupiboy a écrit:
OK. Can a legion with average Hastati and Principes have elite Triarii (as they are not under the heading newly recruited legions), and a legion with mediocre Hastati and Principes have average Triarii?


I think thats the way it works - the Triarii are always a grade better than the Hastatii/Principes
_________________
www.madaxeman.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Jhykronos
Auxiliaire


Inscrit le: 02 Aoû 2015
Messages: 95
MessagePosté le: Mer Juin 07, 2017 5:54 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
madaxeman a écrit:

I think thats the way it works - the Triarii are always a grade better than the Hastatii/Principes


That's very obviously the intention... I'm not positive if the wording in the list is completely explicit.

As an aside: -should- the Triarii be particularly better than the other legionaries? They consist of the oldest men that turn out when the legions are recruited... not necessarily veterans or elites by any measure. In most battle accounts you would be hard pressed to even determine what they did.
_________________
- Let the Die be Cast
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Adresse AIM
madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1462
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Dim Juil 23, 2017 11:10 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I've just checked with the powers that be, and it seems that the ratio in the army list is simply there as advice in order to play historically.

The indicated ratio is not therefore compulsory, only the usual min/max applies.


This should go into the next FAQ
_________________
www.madaxeman.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Commodore
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012
Messages: 1194
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Dim Juil 23, 2017 6:19 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
madaxeman a écrit:
I've just checked with the powers that be, and it seems that the ratio in the army list is simply there as advice in order to play historically.

The indicated ratio is not therefore compulsory, only the usual min/max applies.


This should go into the next FAQ


According to the original french sentence, there is no doubt about the optional/historical option in order to play legion velite/hastati/triarii ratio.
May be some "lost in translation" in the english rulebook. Not the first and probably not the last. It is also why the technical board was made for.
El Kreator confirmed this option.
_________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
daveallen
Tribun


Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 24, 2017 8:22 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Commodore a écrit:
madaxeman a écrit:
I've just checked with the powers that be, and it seems that the ratio in the army list is simply there as advice in order to play historically.

The indicated ratio is not therefore compulsory, only the usual min/max applies.


This should go into the next FAQ


According to the original french sentence, there is no doubt about the optional/historical option in order to play legion velite/hastati/triarii ratio.
May be some "lost in translation" in the english rulebook. Not the first and probably not the last. It is also why the technical board was made for.
El Kreator confirmed this option.

Hubert, not really clear. Shocked

Are you saying Tim is correct and players are not required to stick to the ratio?

Or something else?

Dave
_________________
Putting the ink into incompetence
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Commodore
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2012
Messages: 1194
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 24, 2017 10:09 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:
Commodore a écrit:
madaxeman a écrit:
I've just checked with the powers that be, and it seems that the ratio in the army list is simply there as advice in order to play historically.

The indicated ratio is not therefore compulsory, only the usual min/max applies.


This should go into the next FAQ


According to the original french sentence, there is no doubt about the optional/historical option in order to play legion velite/hastati/triarii ratio.
May be some "lost in translation" in the english rulebook. Not the first and probably not the last. It is also why the technical board was made for.
El Kreator confirmed this option.

Hubert, not really clear. Shocked

Are you saying Tim is correct and players are not required to stick to the ratio?

Or something else?

Dave

Players are not required to stick the ratio. It is only an historical reference.
_________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Cdr Farragut,Mobile 1864
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
AntiokosIII
Barbare


Inscrit le: 01 Aoû 2016
Messages: 23
Localisation: Salinas, California, USA
MessagePosté le: Lun Juil 24, 2017 3:59 pm    Sujet du message: Big. 'Change' Répondre en citant
Everybody I know has been assuming the historical ratios were meant to be mandatory. This army just got a bit better.
_________________
Tabletop miniatures are the only completely honorable form of warfare ever invented.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Diocletian284
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2015
Messages: 9
MessagePosté le: Ven Oct 05, 2018 8:32 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I have read Julian's excellent advice for army building and also Ethas and Madeaxemans write up on how to use a Roman army. All are very helpful.

I have a question somewhat related to this original topic. There is an option to make one of the legions elite. Is it worth it for competitive play? For 10 points you can make legion elite, but in a 200 pt army list you lose one legionary unit or possibly two auxiliaries.

The overall advice I see for the Republican Roman army is to maximize the legionaries. All other units not worth it or serve as fillers to soak up the last remaining points after legionaries are maximized.

Madeaxeman's site recommends having an elite legion and all legionaries with armor. Have one legion as elite to have a heavy punching force. One command of elites, with the other two as support. I have found in play that the elite legion does hold up well and has a great punch. It can stand up to Successor pikemen and elephants and win most of the time. On the other hand, I find my flanking non-elite commands chewed up and lose the game due to unit losses on my flanks.

Julian's recommendation is to maximize overall cohesion points. So to do this, you need to drop the armor and have no elites with this army list.

Other advice has been to go heavy on legions, push forward like a steamroller, try to guard your flanks, and basically compress the enemy to his side of the table.

A balance I would favor is one elite legion with armor, and the others non-elite and not armored. But unfortunately, army list specifies all legionaries in the whole army list as armored or not. Not a mix. From a historical perspective, I cannot see a consular army being that uniform. All armored and all not. All my readings suggest there would be a mix. Some legions would be mostly armored, others not, depending on time period, recruiting during the dilectus, and length of service of that legion.

So looking for advice from the experienced players, go with an elite legion (and armor) or not?

Joe
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
ethan
Signifer


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 347
MessagePosté le: Sam Oct 06, 2018 2:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Diocletian284 a écrit:
I have a question somewhat related to this original topic. There is an option to make one of the legions elite. Is it worth it for competitive play? For 10 points you can make legion elite, but in a 200 pt army list you lose one legionary unit or possibly two auxiliaries.

The overall advice I see for the Republican Roman army is to maximize the legionaries. All other units not worth it or serve as fillers to soak up the last remaining points after legionaries are maximized.


Given that you can mix and match I would do a couple of things:

    Maximize Triarii, probably make them all elite
    Upgrade some legions especially the one or two that will have included generals
    Downgrade some legions, perhaps one per corps that are a reserve/overlap unit
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
  
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Page 1 sur 1
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet Toutes les heures sont au format GMT

 
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum