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Anglo-Saxons (and Germans, Franks, Anglo-Danish, Crusaders!)
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1462
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 20, 2018 2:16 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
To expand on Ethans point about speed, a HI command will get forwards only 4 or maybe 6MU in its first turn, allowing an enemy to march a couple of times in its first turn. Even a couple of cavalry can 'sometimes' get a lot further forwards and keep the enemy a bit more pinned down. OK, they might get overrun and destroyed by better enemy forces - but as long as they get run down in 2 turns or more, and 'over there' it keeps the enemt from getting round your flank.

Of course with AG of 2 its questionable how often you'll be moving first anyway...
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Jeu Sep 20, 2018 3:52 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser a écrit:


If mixed in with my infantry instead, they're not making the most of their speed. Better to swap them for some armoured, two-handed, elite warriors, to provide the hitting power which is otherwise lacking in the two Anglo- lists.


"Mixed into the line" is probably not a good idea with this army. Some armies it can make sense. But the rock paper scissors nature of the game means that your HC might not hold a gap very well "in the line".

So a Corps with mixed foot and Cav tends to operate in a few options:
1) Mounted stays in reserve as desperate fire brigade. Usually this is only 1 unit per 6 front. It is a last ditch attempt to hold the line an extra turn and usually dies too.
2) the mounted go to the side of the infantry and can pressure a weak enemy flank or bend around, or fall back slowly versus superior enemy mounted.
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 7:26 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:


"Mixed into the line" is probably not a good idea with this army. Some armies it can make sense. But the rock paper scissors nature of the game means that your HC might not hold a gap very well "in the line".


I agree: it never occurred to me that cavalry could be used in the same line as infantry in this way. Not optimal!

By 'mixed in' I meant included in infantry corps, rather than as a pure-cavalry corps of their own. I am still undecided about this.

I do foresee using them as you suggest: as either (1) backfield interceptors or (2) flankers.
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Ramses II
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 8:55 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
As others have said, terrain plays a key part in the game, and you should factor the set-up process into your plans. This ‘meta-game’ together with the correct placement of your forces cannot be overemphasised as it can make or break your strategy and your army. 

For example, playing in “Forests†or “Mountains†allows you to pick 4-5 terrain pieces (attacker or defender) which can be used to narrow the table considerably. Light infantry with Javelin are the king of forests - cavalry out-flanking moves are slowed to a snails pace, and even MI risk losing unless they have superior numbers (in which case they reduce the enemy numbers elsewhere). Otherwise the LI role is to protect the front of your HI from shooting and then to provide overlaps if possible (without risking their own destruction). 

With this in mind, you can consider reducing the cavalry to a small token force whose role is to delay enemy advances on an exposed flank and then to exploit any gaps made by your infantry and to pursue through them to finish the game. 

As the others have said or implied, each corps should have a role in your battle plan, with options should certain circumstances arise. 
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 10:03 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
As others have said, terrain plays a key part in the game

(...)

With this in mind, you can consider reducing the cavalry to a small token force whose role is to delay enemy advances on an exposed flank and then to exploit any gaps made by your infantry and to pursue through them to finish the game.


Good to know that LI Javelins are good in forests. I thought I was missing out because of my lack of MI! Having not yet played.

My instinct is to take the cavalry as a dedicated corps, to act as a strike force. This seems to me a more 'active' choice than having one or two with each corps, 'reacting' to enemy breakthroughs (which after all may not even occur). It seems to me that decisive action is the order of the day in ADLG. If the enemy break through my line, the battle is probably lost, regardless of a couple of cavalry quarterbacks.
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 10:14 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I'm hoping to attend the Virtus 2018 tournament https://despertaferres.wordpress.com/2018/08/12/virtus-2018-the-full-and-official-list-of-armies/ in December, which is limited to the Early Classical Period (650 BC to 104 BC inclusive).

I'm thinking of getting my cavalry painted, and running this 90 German list:

Competent Command
5 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
69pts, 9 units

Competent Command
4 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
59pts, 8 units

Ordinary Command
6 Medium cavalry
3 Light cavalry javelin
72pts, 9 units

Total 200pts, 26 units, Initiative 2.
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Dickstick
Légat


Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 680
Localisation: West Bromwich
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 12:45 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Virtus is a relaxed friendly event.
Well worth a trip.
Can highly recommend the event.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 1:37 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser a écrit:

I'm thinking of getting my cavalry painted, and running this 90 German list:

Competent Command
5 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
69pts, 9 units

Competent Command
4 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
59pts, 8 units

Ordinary Command
6 Medium cavalry
3 Light cavalry javelin
72pts, 9 units

Total 200pts, 26 units, Initiative 2.


You have too much LI and LC. remove 2-4 LI and 1 LC. Buy more HI Sword Impetuous. Most opponents would be ok facing only 9 HI. So you are goingto really need your 6 MC to win and with an ordinary commander they won't
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 2:14 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser if you are on the FB or Yahoo lists I have a pdf file on Battle reports with HI swords albeit with impetuous cav. But they might be instructive.

if not pm me and I will email it.
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MathomHouser
Barbare


Inscrit le: 18 Sep 2018
Messages: 26
Localisation: Cardiff, Wales
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 2:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
You have too much LI and LC. remove 2-4 LI and 1 LC. Buy more HI Sword Impetuous. Most opponents would be ok facing only 9 HI. So you are goingto really need your 6 MC to win and with an ordinary commander they won't


So as a general rule for these armies:

6-8 Elite Heavy Infantry
10-12 Heavy Infantry
3-4 Light Infantry

?
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1462
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 4:58 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
https://www.madaxeman.com/reports/Godendag_2018_2.php

Here's a report of Early Germans and using terrain to narrow the table.

https://www.madaxeman.com/reports/Central_London_ADLG_2016_3.php

and another
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Colin_Cavanagh
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 07 Déc 2015
Messages: 109
Localisation: United Kingdom
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 5:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Dickstick a écrit:
Virtus is a relaxed friendly event.
Well worth a trip.
Can highly recommend the event.


You've met Baldwin haven't you???
Laughing
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madaxeman
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1462
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
MessagePosté le: Lun Sep 24, 2018 6:30 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Colin_Cavanagh a écrit:
Dickstick a écrit:
Virtus is a relaxed friendly event.
Well worth a trip.
Can highly recommend the event.


You've met Baldwin haven't you???
Laughing


Inshallah...!
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Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mer Sep 26, 2018 1:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ramses II a écrit:
As others have said, terrain plays a key part in the game, and you should factor the set-up process into your plans. This ‘meta-game’ together with the correct placement of your forces cannot be overemphasised as it can make or break your strategy and your army. 

For example, playing in “Forests†or “Mountains†allows you to pick 4-5 terrain pieces (attacker or defender) which can be used to narrow the table considerably. 


This can not be underscored enough do not just roll up to the table and start rolling dice for terrain pleacement. Have a map of your ideal terrain positions that suits your army and work towards positioning the terrain according to that layout. Of course it will not happening everytime and you will have to adapt. When working with a blank canvas it is btter to know what you want rather than just throwing blobs paint on the canvas.


Dernière édition par Black Prince le Lun Oct 01, 2018 10:06 pm; édité 1 fois
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Maverick2909
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 01 Juil 2017
Messages: 103
Localisation: Oklahoma City, OK
MessagePosté le: Lun Oct 01, 2018 1:12 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
MathomHouser a écrit:
I'm hoping to attend the Virtus 2018 tournament https://despertaferres.wordpress.com/2018/08/12/virtus-2018-the-full-and-official-list-of-armies/ in December, which is limited to the Early Classical Period (650 BC to 104 BC inclusive).

I'm thinking of getting my cavalry painted, and running this 90 German list:

Competent Command
5 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
69pts, 9 units

Competent Command
4 Heavy swordsmen impetuous
3 Light infantry javelin
1 Light infantry bow
59pts, 8 units

Ordinary Command
6 Medium cavalry
3 Light cavalry javelin
72pts, 9 units

Total 200pts, 26 units, Initiative 2.


Take this for what you will as it is my play style and everyone is different. I would drop the 4 LI in the second command, bump it up to 6 HI, make all your HI elite. In the 3rd command I would drop the MC down to 2 and the LC down to 2 then add fill in the rest with HI Impet Elite.

HI Impet Elite is hands down, pound for pound, the best troop type in the game. I would recommend taking as many as you can. I recommend dropping the MC because 6 is a lot, and they are absolute pants vs anything but LI.
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