Art De La Guerre

daveallen · Tribun Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742 Localisation: Rugby & CLWC

To quote the rule:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529

Also keep reading 2nd paragraph,

1) Yes, assuming the shooter is set back in the plantation. If the shooter is "on the edge" then no.

2) Yes

So don't shoot from cover at someone in cover. Apparently having a giant bloody think in front of you and not being able to see very well is an impediment.

daveallen · Post� le: Sam Ao� 18, 2018 4:59 pm Sujet du message:

Not sure about this standing on the edge idea. There doesn't seem to be any provision for it in the rules - you're either in cover or out of it.

Dave
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Putting the ink into incompetence

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529

daveallen · Post� le: Sam Ao� 18, 2018 6:54 pm Sujet du message:

Yes, but...

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529

Dickstick · Post� le: Sam Ao� 18, 2018 11:32 pm Sujet du message:

P48
Target only gets cover if Los goes through cover.
P63
Cover from shooting 2nd para
If part of the shooting edge is in cover then shooter is penalised

There are p48 two penalty points one for target in cover and one for shooter in cover.

A unit "on the edge " gets both. Just like one up to one UD in.

If you want to shoot cover free one has to expose one self to shooting and charges.

One needs to be behind fortifications to have cover with unrestricted shooting.

Nature is not helpful.
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kevinj · Post� le: Dim Ao� 19, 2018 10:10 am Sujet du message:

daveallen · Post� le: Dim Ao� 19, 2018 12:26 pm Sujet du message:

Except that "on the edge" in these rules means the front edge of the unit is in the terrain. See above for reference to the rule on page 57.

In effect it's an either/or situation - either your front edge is in the terrain and you suffer the shooting advantages/disadvantages or it isn't and you don't.

Which makes a lot of sense actually.
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Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529

It could be argued either way. One for the FAQ I guess.

Dickstick · Post� le: Lun Ao� 20, 2018 5:40 pm Sujet du message:

Don't think the french wanted a not in not out position for terrain.
Look how it's written for fortifications.
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kevinj · Post� le: Mar Ao� 21, 2018 9:38 am Sujet du message:

This is where it would be helpful if someone could let us know the intent. It could be argued that if a unit is standing on the edge of a terrain feature the LOS to a target in the open starts outside and does not pass through the cover. So although the unit takes the -1 for shooting from cover if appropriate, it does not suffer an additional -1 due to the target counting in cover as well. It just strikes me as anomalous that, if both count, the unit shooting from cover is more penalised than the one standing in the open.

A4 · Auxiliaire Inscrit le: 08 Oct 2014 Messages: 78

I've a horrible feeling that Dave might be right, going strictly by the wording.

I am pretty sure that that is not the intent, though. I have played against people who have played Herve and I cannot remember anyone claiming benefit of cover for troops in the open. Of course, I might have forgotten or not noticed.

I guess that the minus 1 applied to troops (other than light infantry) firing from a plantation allows for trees getting in the way of the shooters; and that a second minus 1 is only applied if the target is itself in some sort of cover.

Maybe this is a case where the text needs to be adjusted to the way the game is played, rather than the other way around?

Alan

Ramses II · Post� le: Mer Ao� 22, 2018 1:56 pm Sujet du message:

P63 is clearly worded that if part of the (front) edge of the unit is in cover, then the penalty applies.

As Dave says, to shoot without penalty the entire front edge must be outside the terrain, at which point the unit may be attacked 'in the open', but the penalties for moving and fighting in terrain would still apply until the entire unit is clear of the terrain.

I am not sure a FAQ is needed given the clarity of the wording.

Ramses II · Post� le: Mer Ao� 22, 2018 1:57 pm Sujet du message:

P63 is clearly worded that if part of the (front) edge of the unit is in cover, then the penalty applies.

As Dave says, to shoot without penalty the entire front edge must be outside the terrain, at which point the unit may be attacked 'in the open', but the penalties for moving and fighting in terrain would still apply until the entire unit is clear of the terrain.

I am not sure a FAQ is needed given the clarity of the wording.