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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 3:03 am Sujet du message: +1 CP for Phase or each move within phase |
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From FAQ
Citation: | Cost in CP for unmanoeuverable units (see online sheet) Q: If an unmanoeuverable unit performs several difficult manoeuvres during the same movement phase, is the additional cost fixed (+ 1 CP in all cases) or cumulative (+ 1 CP for each difficult manoeuvre)? A: The cost is fixed; +1 CP whatever the number of difficult manoeuvers in the phase of movement of the unit. |
So the question is unmanuverable impetuous cavalry unit quarter turn and goes 2 UD. The moves a 2nd move but only travels 3 UD.
Does this equal 4 CP. (1 + 1 for quarter turn in move one plus 1 for move 2 and +1 for that move be short)
or does it cost 3 CP. (1 for first move, 1 for 2nd move and 1 for the unit performing difficult manuvers)
The FAQ clearly suggests 3. But many players assumed 4. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 8:45 am Sujet du message: |
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It's 3. The FAQ is clear. "The cost is fixed; +1 CP...".
A better English translation would have used the phrase "regardless of" instead of "whatever". |
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ksnyder
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 10 Nov 2015 Messages: 10
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 11:34 am Sujet du message: |
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To explain the reason I (and I presume others) thought it would be +1 per move containing a difficult maneuver in a single phase is because while the FAQ uses the word "phase" in most phases of the game you will only ever be issuing one order per group due to proximity of the enemy. Because of this I read the FAQ considering the word phase not to be that important in the the FAQ question. I have a tendency to assume there might be translation issues too.
The example in the FAQ is of a single movement that contains more than one difficult maneuver. If the intention of the FAQ rule is to make it only +1 for the first move containing a difficult maneuver per phase I highly encourage a second example be added to the FAQ showing that happen. If it was intended to be +1 per move I would highly encourage removing the word phase from the FAQ. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4701
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 11:37 am Sujet du message: |
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It's 3.
Penalties applies on each move, and the exemple describes one move.
If impetuous made fisrt quarter turn and advance 2 ud, and after that made another 3UD advance, it's cost 2+2. _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 12:23 pm Sujet du message: |
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Correct.Â
The intent of the FAQ is to avoid over penalising unmanoeuverable units. |
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ksnyder
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 10 Nov 2015 Messages: 10
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 2:32 pm Sujet du message: |
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Just to confirm because I feel the question was answered both ways.
If an unmaneuverable unit makes 2 separate movements, each containing a difficult maneuver (for example, MI Impetious make 1/4 turn and move 1 UD, then make a second movement of 1 UD followed by a 1/4 turn), the total cost of CP is...
1) 3 CP. 1 CP for each move, and +1 CP because one of the moves contained a difficult maneuver.
OR
2) 4 CP. 1 CP for each move and +1 CP for each move because each contained a difficult maneuver.
I understand that if the MI made a 1/4 turn with a 0 UD forward (which is two difficult maneuvers in the same move) then it is only +1 CP. The question mainly rests on whether the word "phase" in the FAQ is intended to imply you only pay +1 CP ONCE per phase, not once per move.
Dernière édition par ksnyder le Mer Mar 21, 2018 3:05 pm; édité 2 fois |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 347
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 2:57 pm Sujet du message: |
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ksnyder a écrit: | Just to confirm because I feel the question was answered both ways.
If an unmaneuverable unit makes 2 separate movements, each containing a difficult maneuver (for example, MI Impetious make 1/4 turn and move 2 UD, then make a second movement of 2 UD followed by a 1/4 turn), the total cost of CP is... |
MI Impetuous that make a 1/4 turn only move 1UD just to be super careful here... |
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ksnyder
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 10 Nov 2015 Messages: 10
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 3:05 pm Sujet du message: |
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ethan a écrit: | ksnyder a écrit: | Just to confirm because I feel the question was answered both ways.
If an unmaneuverable unit makes 2 separate movements, each containing a difficult maneuver (for example, MI Impetious make 1/4 turn and move 2 UD, then make a second movement of 2 UD followed by a 1/4 turn), the total cost of CP is... |
MI Impetuous that make a 1/4 turn only move 1UD just to be super careful here... |
Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. I edited the original. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 6:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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If the unmanoeuverable unit makes several difficult manoeuvres in two or three different moves during the movement phase, then it will incur +1CP in each move.Â
So hypothetically, a group of Impetuous cavalry that makes three moves as follows incurs the following costs - right turn and move short
1CP+1CP +1CP penalty total = 3CP
- move short
1CP +1CP penalty total =2CP
- group makes a third move, a left turn and move short,
1CP+1CP+1CP Â +1CP penalty total =4CP Ok? |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 7:38 pm Sujet du message: |
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lionelrus a écrit: | It's 3.
Penalties applies on each move, and the exemple describes one move.
If impetuous made fisrt quarter turn and advance 2 ud, and after that made another 3UD advance, it's cost 2+2. |
You say 3 then you say 2+2.
?? |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 7:43 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | If the unmanoeuverable unit makes several difficult manoeuvres in two or three different moves during the movement phase, then it will incur +1CP in each move.Â
So hypothetically, a group of Impetuous cavalry that makes three moves as follows incurs the following costs - right turn and move short
1CP+1CP +1CP penalty total = 3CP
- move short
1CP +1CP penalty total =2CP
- group makes a third move, a left turn and move short,
1CP+1CP+1CP Â +1CP penalty total =4CP Ok? |
I am having trouble unpacking your statement. Are you saying?
1 = A quarter turn in 1st move followed by a 2nd move that is less than a full move. That costs 3 CP total
2 = A single move less than a full move. This costs 2 CP total
3 = Situation 1 but adding a 3rd move. This costs 4 CP total.
these are not cumulative but different examples?
I think that is what you are saying but want to make sure. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mer Mar 21, 2018 11:10 pm Sujet du message: |
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Am rechecking with the TB, since the French FAQ also use the phrase “+1CP per movemement phaseâ€, suggesting a total of one CP, not 1-3CP depending on the number of moves made. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015 Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 22, 2018 8:59 am Sujet du message: |
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So....
Impetuous MI:
1. Make a quarter turn and move the permitted maximum of 1UD; costs 1CP +1CP penalty, total 2 CP.
2. Make a second move of 3UD straight ahead costs 1CP
Total CP required is 3 CP, n'est pas? |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1529
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 22, 2018 3:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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Zoltan a écrit: |
Impetuous MI:
1. Make a quarter turn and move the permitted maximum of 1UD; costs 1CP +1CP penalty, total 2 CP.
2. Make a second move of 3UD straight ahead costs 1CP
Total CP required is 3 CP, n'est pas? |
That is absolutely clear no matter what. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4701
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Jeu Mar 22, 2018 3:58 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | If the unmanoeuverable unit makes several difficult manoeuvres in two or three different moves during the movement phase, then it will incur +1CP in each move.Â
So hypothetically, a group of Impetuous cavalry that makes three moves as follows incurs the following costs - right turn and move short
1CP+1CP +1CP penalty total = 3CP
- move short
1CP +1CP penalty total =2CP
- group makes a third move, a left turn and move short,
1CP+1CP+1CP Â +1CP penalty total =4CP Ok? |
Well,
1) 1cp, difficult manœuvre(don't know English word) and short move+1, 2CP total
2) short move: 1cp + 1cp penalty, total 2
3) 3rd mve, turn left and move short:
1cp, +1cp as being 3rd move, +1cp for turning left and short move: 3cp
now, can you explain how a general can get 8 cp? _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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